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  • #76
    Originally posted by Nevertime View Post
    So far what do people think of the games?
    World 4 of Braid makes me want to punch a baby.

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    • #77
      I must say I liked the first Humble more, World of Goo and Aquaria were really outstanding. I couldn't play Braid so far (due to the OpenGL bug I posted before) and I like Osmos, Machinarium seems nice and really pretty, but these are not games that would reach the professional level of Aquaria or World of Goo. (well, maybe Machinarium is pretty in a professional way, but it's not so complicated and I suspect it's short - as Samorost2 was). Cortex Command and Revenge of the Titans are OK, but those are little games that look just like... indie games. I'd say World of Goo and Aquaria looked like professional ones even though developed independently.

      Also, no 3D games in the second bundle.

      tl;dr: There are IMHO no games in this bundle (maybe except of Braid as I didn't try it) that would be so good as Aquaria and World of Goo from the first bundle.

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      • #78
        The second pack has games which look more like toys plus they are more or less arcade/puzzle style. The first pack had Penumbra Overture which doesn't seem like an indie game at all plus Lugaru wasn't arcade/puzzle as well.
        Number 1 was by far more complete than the second offer and we must not forget that 4 of the 5 games were opensourced.

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        • #79
          Also, there weren't any significant errors in Linux versions of games in the first bundle. Here we have Braid that doesn't work, Cortex Command providing disfunctional 64-bit version and Revenge of the Titans with a simple bug in deb creation (the solution posted above worked for me, even for amd64 edition). So, no problem for me only with installation process of Osmos and Machinarium (the latter to be a Flash game so packaging it must have been easy).

          I think there was far too little testing. I guess anyone who would try RotT just once in Debian/Ubuntu would see the package's broken...

          The first bundle showed it's not impossible to properly test Linux versions before actually selling them, and games there were more complicated. I think such mistakes shouldn't happen in games not available for free. Yes, I know you could get them for $1, but some people paid $100 or more and if they haven't read forums only after paying they could see some packages are broken.

          I can live with that but I'd rather see more testing, less rush next time.

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          • #80
            Originally posted by m_gol View Post
            The first bundle showed it's not impossible to properly test Linux versions before actually selling them, and games there were more complicated. I think such mistakes shouldn't happen in games not available for free. Yes, I know you could get them for $1, but some people paid $100 or more and if they haven't read forums only after paying they could see some packages are broken.
            Do you know why it was dysfunctional on 64-bits? It's because it wasn't a known problem until the testers moved to the problem configurations at the last moment. It's broken on 64-bit Intel with the latest libc- and pretty much only that. If you didn't have any testers testing with that, you'd have NEVER found it.

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            • #81
              Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
              Do you know why it was dysfunctional on 64-bits? It's because it wasn't a known problem until the testers moved to the problem configurations at the last moment. It's broken on 64-bit Intel with the latest libc- and pretty much only that. If you didn't have any testers testing with that, you'd have NEVER found it.
              I've experienced the same problem with OpenArena on Ubuntu 10.04 64-bit (CPU: Intel Core2 Duo P8600), it didn't work because of strcpy used with overlapping strings, too. (by the way, it's still not fixed in Lucid repositories) So the issue would be present on the most popular desktop Linux distro in its 64-bit edition at least from April which gives us 8 months.

              Nonetheless, I didn't want to say I don't appreciate your work. I don't regret money I spent on Humble2 even though I liked the first one more and there were less problems with it. I just think next time it would be nice to test all bundled games just for a couple of minutes each (if it installs, if menu works OK, if missions load properly etc.) about a month or two before deploying the bundle, at least on the most popular distros. If you (or whoever is responsible for the bundle) don't have enough manpower you could always give those games for free to just a couple of usual users in exchange for testing on their specific platforms. Just an idea.

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              • #82
                Originally posted by m_gol View Post
                Here we have Braid that doesn't work, Cortex Command providing disfunctional 64-bit version and Revenge of the Titans with a simple bug in deb creation
                I do agree that the bundle was a bit rushed, but the devs are doing what they can to fix the issues. Unlike in the first bundle, most of these games were released on linux now for the first time (Braid, Cortex Command, RotT came out of beta), and release-day bugs were to be expected, as the indies don't have QA teams like the bigger companies. In HIB#1, the newest game (besides Aquaria) was more than a year old (World of Goo - february 2009).

                The only unexcusable problems are Osmos's broken font, as they really should have fixed that for the bundle in the 1.5months since it was reported :-| (but there's an easy workaround at least) and Braid's lack of a proper readme (that maybe documents -width and -height so the game doesn't fail to start for people with small screens).

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by m_gol View Post
                  I've experienced the same problem with OpenArena on Ubuntu 10.04 64-bit (CPU: Intel Core2 Duo P8600), it didn't work because of strcpy used with overlapping strings, too. (by the way, it's still not fixed in Lucid repositories) So the issue would be present on the most popular desktop Linux distro in its 64-bit edition at least from April which gives us 8 months.
                  Heh... Not everybody was using the latest libc in my test pool and the bulk of the people that were, myself included, were using AMD in 64-bit mode (I've been doing X86_64 in 64-bit mode off and on since before ANYONE had it in hand except testers...in general, 64-bit works cleaner on AMD than Intel for high loads... ). Just because it's a "known" problem doesn't mean it would be found in the title because of testing. Do keep that one in mind (Though...I'd be a bit more than miffed at OpenArena there...that's a bit beyond the pale to know about it and not fix for that long. The moment I knew about it I was qualifying it even if it was too late to pull the plug on 64-bits and trying to find the fix for the past couple of days.... )

                  Nonetheless, I didn't want to say I don't appreciate your work. I don't regret money I spent on Humble2 even though I liked the first one more and there were less problems with it. I just think next time it would be nice to test all bundled games just for a couple of minutes each (if it installs, if menu works OK, if missions load properly etc.) about a month or two before deploying the bundle, at least on the most popular distros. If you (or whoever is responsible for the bundle) don't have enough manpower you could always give those games for free to just a couple of usual users in exchange for testing on their specific platforms. Just an idea.
                  I can't speak for the other teams, but...

                  1) They were tested on two of the popular distros for several months. They were hammered on in 64-bit mode extensively - but I didn't have any of the critical path configurations in hand in my teams or my systems and I was left scrambling to find out what the heck was going on right as the ship time happened. This isn't trying to cop-out; it's explaining just what went down so you can relate where I'm coming from and an apology for the something that almost always slips through the cracks at the last moment on a first release of something.

                  2) 32-bits works pretty well from what I understand...

                  3) The menu problem reported was a bit of a surprise- Mojoinstaller should have handled it right and nobody did the spaces there in my test pool. While it should have done it (I agree it should have- it's supposed to be one of the tools to be able to do that...), one wonders why one would put spaces in their directory path in the first place- many Linux applications don't like you doing that either... (Certain edge cases of command line utilities don't do well with the spaces and they choke. make being one of the ones that will get it wrong part of the time. I'm pretty sure that someone else would've fell upon the sword there. (Do keep in mind, I'm not going to comment either way on the other teams on this...

                  4) 64-bits is actually a bit of a new space for pretty much everyone. Even with my experience with it, I got zapped by a nasty surprise on ship.

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Xipeos View Post
                    I do agree that the bundle was a bit rushed, but the devs are doing what they can to fix the issues. Unlike in the first bundle, most of these games were released on linux now for the first time (Braid, Cortex Command, RotT came out of beta), and release-day bugs were to be expected, as the indies don't have QA teams like the bigger companies. In HIB#1, the newest game (besides Aquaria) was more than a year old (World of Goo - february 2009).
                    Thank you. I couldn't have described the circumstances or my thoughts on the matter better if I tried. I'm...heh...mortified at the two outstanding issues we've seen so far on the stuff.

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
                      (Though...I'd be a bit more than miffed at OpenArena there...that's a bit beyond the pale to know about it and not fix for that long. The moment I knew about it I was qualifying it even if it was too late to pull the plug on 64-bits and trying to find the fix for the past couple of days....
                      It was fixed in OpenArena project, it just didn't end in Ubuntu 10.04 repositories. I provided a patch (acquired from the official version), but so far nobody seems to be willing to sponsor it. Here's the link:
                      https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/554748

                      Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
                      I can't speak for the other teams, but...

                      1) They were tested on two of the popular distros for several months. They were hammered on in 64-bit mode extensively - but I didn't have any of the critical path configurations in hand in my teams or my systems and I was left scrambling to find out what the heck was going on right as the ship time happened. This isn't trying to cop-out; it's explaining just what went down so you can relate where I'm coming from and an apology for the something that almost always slips through the cracks at the last moment on a first release of something.
                      I guess it's just a price we pay for inhomogeneity of the Linux platform...

                      Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
                      2) 32-bits works pretty well from what I understand...
                      Yep (except for Braid). I didn't try to install anything with a space in path, though. Also, I don't know if there were problems in that but it's in my habit to not install globally anything that didn't come in a native *.deb package. (it's not an option for multi-user setups, though).

                      Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
                      3) The menu problem reported was a bit of a surprise- Mojoinstaller should have handled it right and nobody did the spaces there in my test pool. While it should have done it (I agree it should have- it's supposed to be one of the tools to be able to do that...), one wonders why one would put spaces in their directory path in the first place- many Linux applications don't like you doing that either...
                      Not everybody is required to know that. If it doesn't work it would be better to prevent it from the front-end side. But I understand you didn't know about the problem.

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by m_gol View Post
                        It was fixed in OpenArena project, it just didn't end in Ubuntu 10.04 repositories. I provided a patch (acquired from the official version), but so far nobody seems to be willing to sponsor it. Here's the link:
                        https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/554748
                        Useful info... Maybe it can get sorted out properly- that's not a good thing to have lurking in the mix. I carved it out wherever possible when I see it in code.


                        I guess it's just a price we pay for inhomogeneity of the Linux platform...
                        Indeed. But it's no different than some of the gotchas lurking in the Windows world (There's a lot most people blow off on other things that're more due to the kind of thing I got zapped with in that world...trust me... And it's actually a bit worse there than where we are... )

                        Yep (except for Braid).
                        Now, now... Be nice... It's as much S3's fault on that score.

                        I didn't try to install anything with a space in path, though. Also, I don't know if there were problems in that but it's in my habit to not install globally anything that didn't come in a native *.deb package. (it's not an option for multi-user setups, though).
                        I'm working on fixes for the games I've ported, but it's not a simple thing to just drop in PhysicsFS (though I've tried a hack that didn't work as well as I'd hoped...) though so it didn't happen with the rollout. As for multi-user setups...it depends on whether you allow them to locally install the game or not. If they do, each user can install.


                        Not everybody is required to know that. If it doesn't work it would be better to prevent it from the front-end side. But I understand you didn't know about the problem.
                        Believe me, I've got the same attitude as you do on that score...I'm working on sorting most of this stuff out and doing a re-spin pretty quick here.

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                        • #87
                          As an update from the Twitter feed if you're not watching... They've pushed new RotT builds and they're propagating out to the content delivery network. Should be able to get un-busted packaging here shortly.

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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
                            As an update from the Twitter feed if you're not watching... They've pushed new RotT builds and they're propagating out to the content delivery network. Should be able to get un-busted packaging here shortly.
                            Will they be available via the official site?

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
                              Now, now... Be nice... It's as much S3's fault on that score.
                              S3? Just for the record, my graphics card is Intel GMA 4500MHD.

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by m_gol View Post
                                S3? Just for the record, my graphics card is Intel GMA 4500MHD.
                                S3 protects Intel against lawsuits based on the S3TC patent.

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