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Urban Terror HD: Going Away From Open-Source

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  • #31
    There is some difference between zero cost end-result and zero cost progress
    Good luck finding anyone that will work for free.

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    • #32
      Hi ,

      There has been a huge amount of speculation around this new version of Urban Terror. A large ongoing debate can be read at

      http://forums.urbanterror.info/topic...-urban-terror/

      Urban Terror HD is going to build on the strengths of our game and dispel many of weaknesses and in which case, we hope, will be more enjoyable to play!

      Regards

      RaideR
      NetAdmin, Team Frozen Sand

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      • #33
        Originally posted by RaideR View Post
        Hi ,

        There has been a huge amount of speculation around this new version of Urban Terror. A large ongoing debate can be read at

        http://forums.urbanterror.info/topic...-urban-terror/

        Urban Terror HD is going to build on the strengths of our game and dispel many of weaknesses and in which case, we hope, will be more enjoyable to play!

        Regards

        RaideR
        NetAdmin, Team Frozen Sand
        Hi, I read the thread but I didn't see any official response to the "huge amount of speculation" many are asking.

        First, if the move to the 11 years old codebase of q3 1.32b dropping the ioquake3 engine is confirmed, for sure the game will lose a lot of features and fixes contributed by the community.

        Also, from an ethical point of view, it's not very nice to close the game source after having had a (partially) free software version in the past. Fortunately other games are doing the opposite (i.e. 0ad was released as GPL + CC-BY-SA and after this move is gaining new developers and a huge amount of new features).

        So while HD could be a somewhat better UrT (and maybe give more money to the developers if that was the point of closing the source) it's a bad move for a lot of Linux and free software supporters.

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        • #34
          From the article:

          "From the next version on out, Urban Terror will be its own standalone game with its own engine and no longer a mod. This means we can do the tech we want instead of having to keep backwards compatibility with vanilla Q3."
          This makes little sense to me at all. There was nothing stopping the team from using IOQ3 as a base and forking with their own tech improvements, and keeping it open sourced, was there?

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          • #35
            Originally posted by yogi_berra View Post
            You make a wonderful technical argument here as to why we all need network sound for a locally played game.
            Your trolling was good up until this point.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by yogi_berra View Post
              No one as in no one. There is not a single ioq3 mod that has released anything using png.
              Ok, so "no one" actually means "no ioq3 mod". Got it.
              Originally posted by yogi_berra View Post
              You make a wonderful technical argument here as to why we all need network sound for a locally played game.
              Pulseaudio is a sound daemon that HAS network capabilities. No one is forcing you to use it through the network. Linux is known for its networking support, so having a sound server that works across the network makes sense (I know that for you it doesn't, but the devs aren't working only for you). I can see the advantages of using pulseaudio for a game that makes use of voice communication, since it allows the user to set volume levels per application (e.g. lower system sounds volume while playing).

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              • #37
                Originally posted by devius View Post
                having a sound server that works across the network makes sense (I know that for you it doesn't, but the devs aren't working only for you).
                What would make sense is to fix the underlying problem with Linux sound before you add another layer of complexity to the situation.

                I can see the advantages of using pulseaudio for a game that makes use of voice communication, since it allows the user to set volume levels per application (e.g. lower system sounds volume while playing).
                Oddly enough, most games with voip utilize it without relying on a networked sound daemon.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by yogi_berra View Post
                  What would make sense is to fix the underlying problem with Linux sound before you add another layer of complexity to the situation.
                  I don't think there are too many problems with linux sound these days. Alsa drivers provide harware mixing or a software fallback in case the former isn't available, it's possible to achieve low latency with JACK in cases where it matters and the quality of the software resamplers seems to be adequate. Hardware support could be better, but apart from that what other problems are you referring to?
                  Originally posted by yogi_berra View Post
                  Oddly enough, most games with voip utilize it without relying on a networked sound daemon.
                  Fair enough. I didn't know that. The thing is that in linux most things work in a server/client fashion, so I think it was inevitable that that concept would be used in the audio sub-system to add network capabilities to it.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by yogi_berra View Post
                    What would make sense is to fix the underlying problem with Linux sound before you add another layer of complexity to the situation.
                    a) false dilemma b) since when is supporting current APIs 'adding complexity'? I suppose ioquake3 shouldn't support modern OpenGL features either - 'cause of, ya'know, all the complexity n'stuff.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Irritant View Post
                      This makes little sense to me at all. There was nothing stopping the team from using IOQ3 as a base and forking with their own tech improvements, and keeping it open sourced, was there?
                      No, there wasn't, Irritant. They just wanted to keep it all to themselves and arranged a way to do it- and tried to frame it such that they weren't able to do those things within ioquake3.

                      Lame.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by etnlWings View Post
                        a) false dilemma b) since when is supporting current APIs 'adding complexity'? I suppose ioquake3 shouldn't support modern OpenGL features either - 'cause of, ya'know, all the complexity n'stuff.
                        They don't support modern OpenGL features. Nice troll, though.

                        Alsa drivers provide harware mixing or a software fallback in case the former isn't available, it's possible to achieve low latency with JACK in cases where it matters and the quality of the software resamplers seems to be adequate. Hardware support could be better, but apart from that what other problems are you referring to?
                        I guess you've never gotten to enjoy clipping during startup from newer versions of Alsa.

                        Lame.
                        What's lame about exercising one's freedom?

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by yogi_berra View Post
                          They don't support modern OpenGL features.
                          Did I ever say otherwise?
                          Nice troll, though.
                          Oh, very droll.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by yogi_berra View Post
                            I guess you've never gotten to enjoy clipping during startup from newer versions of Alsa.
                            No. Everything works fine even in my puny Eee PC 1000H. Could that be related to the other "desktop responsiveness under heavy I/O and system load" that is being discussed in another thread?


                            PS: Is it just me or this whole thread has nothing more to do with the original topic?

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                            • #44
                              -Thread revival-

                              Opensource and gaming is not a happy marriage. It makes protecting the anti-cheat even harder than it already is.

                              I've been an opensource software fan and adopter for over a decade. But one should see that opensource is not the solution to every software purpose.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Nexu View Post
                                -Thread revival-

                                Opensource and gaming is not a happy marriage. It makes protecting the anti-cheat even harder than it already is.

                                I've been an opensource software fan and adopter for over a decade. But one should see that opensource is not the solution to every software purpose.
                                For your information.

                                I have been helping Urban Terror Anti Cheat Project (UAA, UrtAdmins) for over a decade and it has been proven the best anti-cheat protection.

                                Mechanical protection does not help, regardless how obfuscated it is.
                                There is always a path. A lot of cheaters PAY for cheats.
                                Both anticheat and cheat are PAYED.
                                Both are same in terms of closed source crap.

                                However, 1) if a person registers itself and his IP adress, very possible with money. And this person is stored in some database that some servers are using.

                                And when 2) this person is suspected in cheating, a demo of this person is created. Believe me, it is VERY EFFICIENT to get information on either this demo is with cheats or not.

                                3) Dedicated people watch with person demo, both with empty walls and see how he behaves. If it is cheat he is VERY EASILY spotted. He is banned on ALL servers that use the list - on official servers.

                                The only difference from this rather EFFICIENT method is the hacked getting another IP, which will be VERY HARD with new "pass" method.
                                ---

                                However if you obfuscate you get same virus-like software inside that is AGAINST the current user. This is stupid, inefficient and dangerous. And 50% of the time it is letting cheaters play, 30% of time banning not cheating people, 20% of time people using real well known, old, obvious and NOT PRIVATE cheats are really detected.

                                Your closed source crappy method is working the same way AV is working and is giving you that SWEET FALSE FEEL of security. Especially after you payed that bribe-money. It is very well known by Urt programmers to be very inefficient and they do not use it.

                                There is no method to really detect either the current closed source software is REALLY not malicious. Your only way is to trust. And trust is a weakness. I was already got infected this method with original developer discovering his software has been misused for hidden agent after HALF YEAR. Every update to that software introduced updated malware with original developer had no clue.

                                Software should be downloaded from original resource. This software should be as opensource as crystal glass. And the developer should be payed enough money for hard work on maintaining this software. This is all.

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