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Gaming Benchmarks: Windows 7 vs. Ubuntu Linux

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  • #31
    Originally posted by nanonyme View Post
    Don't modern Windows systems come with Aero enabled as well? (and yes, you can disable compositing from Gnome unless Ubuntu removed that functionality)
    Aero is disabled for 3D apps

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    • #32
      Originally posted by curfew View Post
      That's just bullshit you're saying. This isn't about professional tweaking, just being fair and square. It's idiotic to compare a composited desktop performance to an uncomposited one, totally useless.
      No, it's not useless. It's "bullshit" that Compiz does not disable when OpenGL is in use. If Microsoft is able to figure it out, why isn't thousands upon thousands of open source programmers able to?

      The onus isn't on Michael to artificially improve the Linux numbers. It is on the developers to make their system perform better in a stock configuration.

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      • #33
        The issue isn't disabling when OpenGL is in use (which happens even with a lot of 2D toolkits) AFAIK, it's disabling compositing when a fullscreen app is running.

        Compiz already has an option for that.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by unimatrix View Post
          The sooner everyone accepts that Linux still lacks graphics improvements the better.
          Hey there. Lots of improvements lately, still not perfect. Btw, what do you mean with accept? Should we just curl up in a corner and cry?

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          • #35
            Originally posted by FunkyRider View Post
            The problem is, there is no frigging real games on Linux.

            Can we pls compare:

            Age of Empires III
            Assassin's Creed
            Batman Arkham Asylum
            Battlefield 2142 / Bad Company 2
            Burnout Paradise
            Call of Duty - World at War
            Company of Heroes
            Crysis / WARHEAD
            Counter Strike Source
            DiRT 1 / 2
            Fallout 3
            Far Cry 2
            FEAR / Perseus Mandate
            GRID
            GTA SA / 4
            HL2 EP2
            Left 4 Dead 1 / 2
            Mass Effect 2
            Modern Warfare 2
            Need for Speed 1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9/10/11/12/13
            Portal
            Red Alert 3 / Uprising
            Sniper Ghost Warrior
            StarCraft II
            Street Fighter 4
            Team Fortress 2
            The Saboteur
            Unreal Tournament 3 (sigh...)
            X-Men Origins - Wolverine

            Please compare how those run in Windows 7 against Linux ?
            Not to mention that is only PART of my regularly played games
            I've played Starcraft 2 both under Linux/Wine and Windows. Sorry to say SC2 under wine even playing in openGL mode with low settings performs like garbage compared to Win7... Which hums along with all the settings on Ultra...

            I've had better performance luck with Source games under Wine. Counter Strikes Source plays well enough that I don't bother rebooting my machine into Windows to play nativity.

            Also World of Warcraft plays reasonably well... 3d Performance isnt as good as Windows but on thing I have noticed is that my latency is considerably lower when I play under Wine/Linux compared to Windows.

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            • #36
              if i recall correctly Micheal did a gaming benchmark with many linux distros, right? and i think that Mandriva and PC Os were the fastest for gaming at that time i don't know if it's still true! Anyway i think that Micheal has to benchmark on others distros aside ubuntu!

              @ FunkyRider: have you played NWN, Penumbra, ETQW, W:ET, UT200x on linux?

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              • #37
                Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                The issue isn't disabling when OpenGL is in use (which happens even with a lot of 2D toolkits) AFAIK, it's disabling compositing when a fullscreen app is running.

                Compiz already has an option for that.
                No it doesn't. Compiz is a compositing window manager and nothing else. It cannot be ran without compositing. When compositing is to be disabled, some other window manager needs to take Compiz's place. Therefore the compositing must be toggled by an outsider application.

                Originally posted by locovaca View Post
                No, it's not useless. It's "bullshit" that Compiz does not disable when OpenGL is in use. If Microsoft is able to figure it out, why isn't thousands upon thousands of open source programmers able to?

                The onus isn't on Michael to artificially improve the Linux numbers. It is on the developers to make their system perform better in a stock configuration.
                Neither of the operating systems were running "stock configuration". They had custom installations of Nvidia drivers. Michael's benchmarks were both unfair and unprofessional. Sad to see a Linux-enthusiast not give a flying crap about fair game when it comes to benchmarking Linux.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by locovaca View Post
                  Again, if this is a huge issue, file a bug report with Ubuntu. Until Ubuntu changes their policy, Michael won't (and shouldn't) touch the setting in his benchmarks.
                  He could at least stop drawing strange conclusions.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by curfew View Post
                    No it doesn't. Compiz is a compositing window manager and nothing else. It cannot be ran without compositing. When compositing is to be disabled, some other window manager needs to take Compiz's place. Therefore the compositing must be toggled by an outsider application.
                    Nope. Compiz can unredirect fullscreen apps. Worst thing here is that you seem to think that you even know what you're talking about :P

                    http://wiki.compiz.org/GeneralOptions#General


                    Neither of the operating systems were running "stock configuration". They had custom installations of Nvidia drivers. Michael's benchmarks were both unfair and unprofessional.
                    They didn't have "custom" installations of the drivers. They had normal installations of the drivers as recommended by NVidia.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by curfew View Post
                      No it doesn't. Compiz is a compositing window manager and nothing else. It cannot be ran without compositing. When compositing is to be disabled, some other window manager needs to take Compiz's place. Therefore the compositing must be toggled by an outsider application.
                      as already above stated is compiz able to disable compositing. (the 0.9 version can even fully handle windowmanaging without compositing)

                      And there is no need to replace anything. X runs perfectly fine without a windowmanager. Depending on where windows are placed by default you can even work like that.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by RealNC View Post
                        Nope. Compiz can unredirect fullscreen apps. Worst thing here is that you seem to think that you even know what you're talking about :P

                        http://wiki.compiz.org/GeneralOptions#General
                        The worst thing is me knowing something about things and being the only one around, having to confront all of you people...

                        "Unredirect fullscreen windows" is a completely different thing. Both technically and performance-wise. Just to shut you up, I benchmarked all the three different setup with Nexuiz's timedemo. First Compiz without unredirection, then Compiz with unredirection enabled and lastly with an uncomposited desktop using Metacity window manager.

                        Results: (secs -- fps min / avg / max)
                        Compiz: 54 -- 20 / 37 / 73
                        Compiz + UFW: 49 -- 22 / 42 / 82
                        Uncomposited: 41 -- 28 / 50 / 102

                        (All tests were ran twice, the results being practically identical.)

                        There's a huge boost in turning off the compositing. "Unredirect full screen windows" gives less than 50 % of the lost performance back.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by RealNC View Post
                          Nope. Compiz can unredirect fullscreen apps. Worst thing here is that you seem to think that you even know what you're talking about :P

                          http://wiki.compiz.org/GeneralOptions#General
                          The worst thing is me knowing something about things and being the only one around, having to confront all of you people...

                          "Unredirect fullscreen windows" is a completely different thing. Both technically and performance-wise. Just to shut you up, I benchmarked all the three different setup with Nexuiz's timedemo. First Compiz without unredirection, then Compiz with unredirection enabled and lastly with an uncomposited desktop using Metacity window manager.

                          Results: (secs -- fps min / avg / max)
                          Compiz: 54 -- 20 / 37 / 73
                          Compiz + UFW: 49 -- 22 / 42 / 82
                          Uncomposited: 41 -- 28 / 50 / 102

                          (All tests were ran twice, the results being practically identical.)

                          There's a huge boost in turning off the compositing. "Unredirect full screen windows" gives less than 50 % of the lost performance back.

                          Originally posted by Ragas View Post
                          as already above stated is compiz able to disable compositing. (the 0.9 version can even fully handle windowmanaging without compositing)
                          Compiz 0.9 is a so-called "preview release" meaning it's still beta, and to my knowledge will be for at least the next 6-12 months. It's a pseudo stable release just like KDE 4.0.0 was in the past. And it isn't even shipped with Ubuntu 10.04 so this is completely offtopic.

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                          • #43
                            They didn't have "custom" installations of the drivers. They had normal installations of the drivers as recommended by NVidia.
                            Lets just say that Windows 7 has single measurable 3D performance value while in Ubuntu you have 2 different modes that are easily switchable using radio button. It is correct to present both modes of Ubuntu performance. Situation is somewhat comparable to Windows 7 XP mode, except that XP mode is unlikely to be any faster then "native" Win7 mode (actually it is probably slower), so there is no great reason for testing it.

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                            • #44
                              Ubuntu doesn't have compositing enabled with the default Nvidia (Nouveau) configuration. It's only enabled after the user explicitly installs a custom driver and enables it. Therefore I find it ridiculous to state that disabling this custom-enabled compositing would skew the benchmarks.

                              With a stock configuration there wouldn't even be a benchmark because Nouveau doesn't do 3D that well (not with most hardware, at least). Maybe Michael should stick to that, just to be completely fair.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by locovaca View Post
                                It is not unfair if Ubuntu ships with Compositing enabled, which they do. Just because they have not implemented a disable on demand feature as Windows has speaks more to Microsoft's tuning of their OS for a wider audience than Ubuntu.

                                Again, if this is a huge issue, file a bug report with Ubuntu. Until Ubuntu changes their policy, Michael won't (and shouldn't) touch the setting in his benchmarks.
                                I agree with this. To disable compositing, the you have to click through about 3 or 4 layers (and it isn't even called compositing in the configuration too). This has low discoverability, and consequently you should consider it the way that the majority (read someone who tries out gaming casually and use Linux casually) of people will experience apps. I'd imagine that under Windows turning of DWM (Win7's compositor) is just as arcane and twisted process.

                                Tweakers exist on both sides of the fence, you can have tweaked performance and stock performance.

                                Again, I'd challenge people to create a new forum thread, and define the configuration that you'd like to see benched. Now the key part here is that you need to reach consensus on how the system should be configured. Within that thread people who are interested need to settle on all the tweaks that would be needed to get the best performance. Write it up, and I am sure that Michael would run the benchmarks again.

                                Matthew

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