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Is LGP Going The Way Of Loki Software?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by grigi View Post
    So, I checked, and yup, it is true. Slashdot has not reported on any LGP games they released recently. Love his sarcasm.

    Still, I think, that relaunching the tuxgames site, (to make it look like GoG, or other such sites) could do them great.

    The first time I found it, I was skeptical to spend any money there. I finally did buy 1 item as a test, and then a lot later on.

    Sigh
    I think he has plans for that sort of thing- I know that was on his list of things to do.

    But, if he's managing two or more ports himself (the role Mike Phillips held down from the onset of things...) then he might be a bit more busy than one would think and things might be slipping through the cracks on him like we're seeing.

    As for his sarcasm, it's more due to ire at all of this than anything else. He doesn't call out Phoronix for only one reason, I think- they've at least been tracking everything else they've done in the large for a while now in addition to this debatable piece of "news" on the site right now.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by TheCycoONE View Post
      For others who wonder, we are very much alive. We have had a couple of staffing issues on the admin side of things, which explains most of our silence, but work is progressing on more than one unannounced title. We will offer further updates as and when there is news to update you with."
      That is great news! Nothing better than LGP delivering good games to linux. (I must admit my previous statement was too "edgy", because I'm a bit frustrated by the lack of good commercial games for linux. And so far I don't think LGP are delivering the kind of games that I like. (Morrowind, DragonAge, TrackMania, Quake/Unreal/QW:ET)

      I would love Linux being at least up to par with mac as a gaming platform, and preferably much better!

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
        in that point of view DIE LGP! DIE!
        I don't agree with his DRM choice, but I'm strongly suspecting that it came about because he wouldn't have gotten Sacred otherwise, along with what he's possibly working on right now. The industry's enamored with DRM except with stuff like the nostalgia stuff or most of the Indie stuff. They're addicted to it and as a reality of things, if that's what you need to have for AAA titles, it's a "choose" time for each and every one of you.

        Either you pick to deal with DRM as best you can...or you do without those titles you've all been bitching about not having or LGP not porting and maybe play them on a PS3 or Wii if they're there.

        Seriously.

        As long as there's idiots like EA out there, you're going to have to deal with DRM on the Linux platform or do without those titles in toto- you're not going to get it both ways.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by bell View Post
          And so far I don't think LGP are delivering the kind of games that I like. (Morrowind, DragonAge, TrackMania, Quake/Unreal/QW:ET)
          Got a quarter mil burning a hole in your pocket? You can get them over to Linux for about $100-250k for EACH TITLE.

          The only way you're going to see those titles (or ones like them...) in the short term is if the publishers have a change of heart on Linux support themselves, or if I win the PowerBall or MegaMillions Lotto.

          Seriously.

          The publishers want insane amounts of money for AAA titles- just to get a peek at the code.

          The amounts go down if they think they can get more out of the royalties deal they cut you when they agree to allow you to port. If they think you'll sell 10k units of the title, they allow it for 20-50k and gouge you a bit on the royalties.

          The only way you're going to see less on those figures right now is if you're heavily connected to people high up within the publisher and get a sweetheart deal on things. Loki got a few of those, just so you know, and they screwed things up with some mis-management at the wrong times (which included getting too many sweetheart deals- they couldn't execute fast enough and sell enough to offset even those expenses...). I don't see us getting that sort of deal anytime soon.

          MacOS happens to have stuff on their platform, less because the studios cared and more because the userbase bought what was initially ventured, bravely mind, under the conditions I allude to above. At 10k units sold at the typical retail price, there's enough profit within two titles to actually brave doing a third- and if you get a sweetheart deal and execute well, you're positioned for the next title after the first two.

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          • #20
            I suggest everyone boycott LGP until they drop DRM from their games. If they insist on providing software with DRM, they deserve to fail.

            On the other hand, if they do abolish DRM, every GNU/Linux user should buy at least one game from them, if only to support the idea of non-DRM ridden game on Linux.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by bell View Post
              Sounds like an epic endeavor I wish you all the best! (I'm pretty confident that you already know how much work this is, and how many game developers that fail miserably? Compared to how few that really succeed)
              If I break into your house late at night when you're in REM sleep and wake you up and ask you what the three best, still played and most memmorial and legendary games of all time are, chances are extremely high it will be:
              1. Pac Man
              2. Tetris
              3. Pong

              You know why? Because of the gameplay. How many devs does it take to make such a game and how long? 1 dev and about half a year in spare time.

              Now then as I already pointed out I am not going to make a 1080p HD Holywood sript game...

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              • #22
                Originally posted by TwistedLincoln View Post
                I suggest everyone boycott LGP until they drop DRM from their games. If they insist on providing software with DRM, they deserve to fail.

                On the other hand, if they do abolish DRM, every GNU/Linux user should buy at least one game from them, if only to support the idea of non-DRM ridden game on Linux.
                Dude, LGP's DRM implementation is easily the least intrusive I have seen. Actually, once working with it, I'd say you shouldn't even call it DRM, since it doesn't assume you are guilty until proven innocent.

                Please, PLEASE, stop abusing LGP and wanting everything for nothing.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Julius View Post
                  But it was/is also their horrible website, the limited digital payment options (Paypal, Google, Amazon???) and their refusal to sell purely digital copies for prices that are somewhat competitive.

                  Sacred Gold (one of their strongest recent titles) can be bought as a windows version for 5 here in Germany (maybe 10 depending where you go), something below 20 for a digital copy of the linux version would be fine I guess, but 27 pounds (32) give me a f***ing break!
                  A few weeks ago I opened up a small linuxgaming shop with new and used games (still somehow beta). Unfortunately I can not yet offer downloadable games, but I'm working on it. I'm pretty sure I'll be much closer to 20 that to 32 (if the euro does not fail completely).

                  Currently I'm offering the boxed version of Sacred: Gold for ~25.50. Maybe you are interested?

                  Link: Fun4Tux

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by NeoBrain View Post
                    If YOU seriously want to compare starforce to LGP's drm then YOU fail.
                    no i don't i compare DRM to Satan,666,microsoft,evil,apple,danger,death,worst, childfucking......

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                    • #25
                      Honestly, the problem is that all the titles are ANCIENT!!! If I am going to play a game on Linux it is free and open source, or at least decently priced and modern. Quite frankly, I think LGP gives Linux gaming a bad name. I can get much, better (and native) titles for free. Porting a game 5 years after its release just isn't the way to go. I very much like the concept of Steam for Linux, and I hope to see it fairly soon.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                        no i don't i compare DRM to Satan,666,microsoft,evil,apple,danger,death,worst, childfucking......


                        Apple=evil DRM=EVIL

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by TwistedLincoln View Post
                          I suggest everyone boycott LGP until they drop DRM from their games. If they insist on providing software with DRM, they deserve to fail.
                          Then don't be bitching about the lack of AAA titles that they're not offering right at the moment. In the large, the publishers that own the rights to those titles WANT DRM and insist upon it before you'll get rights access- or they charge you even MORE money than the typical low 6 figures they gig you for if you can't do DRM for some reason.

                          Get companies like UbiSoft and EA to wise up and DRM will go away.

                          Beating up LGP isn't going to help anyone and it's going to do you out of much of the Linux gaming scene, such as it is right now.

                          On the other hand, if they do abolish DRM, every GNU/Linux user should buy at least one game from them, if only to support the idea of non-DRM ridden game on Linux.
                          It's not so much their call as it is the studios' and publishers' call. I found out that the DRM he came up with was done more as a response to Ascaron's request for the same on Sacred.

                          (Wearing my official LGP rep hat for a moment here...)

                          All the same, if we did manage to find a way to remove DRM from the picture, would you seriously and honestly buy then? Sadly, while I've seen amazing things from everyone in the Indie space, I've seen the opposite and nothing but empty rhetoric in the case of LGP. Lots of people saying they'd buy but don't for varying reasons.

                          One of the reasons he caved to pressure from Ascaron on this is that we really DO see a 1 in 20 ratio of bought to pirated on the titles we've published up to this point. Excuses for this vary, but the main one I've seen as a bitch about the titles is that people can buy the title in the bargain bin for $1-5 for Windows, never once realizing that in truth, the game in question is a new SKU as far as everyone in the industry's concerned and there's costs, etc. involved with the production of said new SKU and it's being priced fairly for what it is, sadly enough. When you do a pressing, the per-unit royalties that are owed on the title in question are due THEN. That's why Loki ended up owing iD a quarter million plus having never sold more than about 200-400 units of Quake 3:Arena (Which, for everyone's information here, was one of the major, major missteps that killed Loki...). So, unless you're REALLY flush with cash or know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you're going to sell 20-50k units, you don't press that many and press 2-5k max and run a bigger price point to see a profit overall or at least do break-even on things.

                          (Taking off the LGP hat...)

                          In the end, you're going to have to make some hard decisions here. But you need to have the decision framed clearly in your mind and stick to the decision without any whingeing about the lack of titles, etc. when you choose the other path. In order to honestly resolve the problem down that path (and I'll applaud you if you DO this...) is to help people like me work at removing the belief that you actually NEED this sort of thing and actually BUY the stuff that isn't DRMed to help give ammo to the position you've taken and I'm trying to build up here.

                          This includes any titles that LGP ships right now without the DRM in it, even if they do have DRM on other titles.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by LinuxID10T View Post
                            Honestly, the problem is that all the titles are ANCIENT!!! If I am going to play a game on Linux it is free and open source, or at least decently priced and modern. Quite frankly, I think LGP gives Linux gaming a bad name. I can get much, better (and native) titles for free. Porting a game 5 years after its release just isn't the way to go. I very much like the concept of Steam for Linux, and I hope to see it fairly soon.
                            So you can get better than X3 and Sacred for free? Show me links, please...

                            Oh, and Steam for Linux doesn't solve the effort to MAKE the titles- it's a deployment and DRM framework.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
                              So you can get better than X3 and Sacred for free? Show me links, please...

                              Oh, and Steam for Linux doesn't solve the effort to MAKE the titles- it's a deployment and DRM framework.
                              I just believe there are many free games that are just as entertaining. Maybe not for the same genre as X3, but if first person shooters is your thing... Anyway, the other problem is that some of the games from LGP have been horribly maintained. The dependencies are ancient a lot of the time, and a lot of the time it is just easier to run the game under WINE. BTW, Steam and the Source engine were ported to Mac, not just the Steam framework. That means that getting it to run on Linux should be fairly trivial, now that the engine running. As for X3, I am surely not going to pay 30 pounds for a game from 2005. The truth of the matter is that if I am going to pay for a title to run on Linux, it is either going to be far cheaper (or free) or it is going to be from the last year or so. Personally, I think you guys deserve to be working on triple A games so they will be able to run the same day that the Windows version is released.

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                              • #30
                                I'd like to point out that I'm one of those that bought X3, and personally I think "Dam right is worth that". Spent bloody hours on it.

                                The fact its 5 year old is irrelevant, I'm like most and would love to see a AAA title from whoever, but the sheer rights/license that they would want would be telephone numbers at a guess.
                                But when people say " I'm not paying...." how can you expect them to be able to get said AAA title without the backing from us in buying games already done so as to help prove there's a market to said AAA title holders.



                                Pete.

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