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  • Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
    I'd just hang loose and wait and see (while not holding your breath...)
    Good advice. It'll save having to pick up all those dead bodies which are blue in the face :-O

    Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
    I'll say he had it right with the Opening of the info from AMD- it just didn't happen quite as fast as he'd been led to believe it might've been. He also was largely right on the drivers from AMD improving (though they're not as improved as they could be- but that's AMD's doing, not Michael's...) and in this post of his, he referred to something few know...the codename for the re-worked driver codebase AMD is currently using for Windows and Linux drivers.
    As far as AMD's drivers improving were concerned, all but the most negative of people should have envisioned that the improvements we're seeing would be coming so I don't give him any points for those, especially when AMD said they'd be increasing their effort and targeting those fancy new composited desktop thingies, although that doesn't mean he didn't have any inside info as well.


    Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
    He's got info, much like I've got info. Stuff he can disclose, and stuff he plain flat CAN'T.
    So no news then, nothing to see here, move along folks ;-)

    Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
    I'm not going to blithely believe him- I want proof. However, with his track record, I'm willing to give him a bit of benefit of doubt on things and not outright state he's making it up as some have in this and other threads.
    Any rumours that Duke Nukem for Ever was coming that would've made people laugh so it just goes to show that nothings impossible. But... surely the issue isn't that a Linux version of Steam being released is an impossibility, just that there's no publicly available evidence of it and so it's wrong to simply assume it's coming on someone's say so.

    While we're at it, I guess we could all discuss the possibility of Microsoft releasing MS Office for Linux. It's not impossible, just unlikely.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
      I'd just hang loose and wait and see (while not holding your breath...)

      I'll say he had it right with the Opening of the info from AMD- it just didn't happen quite as fast as he'd been led to believe it might've been. He also was largely right on the drivers from AMD improving (though they're not as improved as they could be- but that's AMD's doing, not Michael's...) and in this post of his, he referred to something few know...the codename for the re-worked driver codebase AMD is currently using for Windows and Linux drivers.

      He's got info, much like I've got info. Stuff he can disclose, and stuff he plain flat CAN'T.

      I'm not going to blithely believe him- I want proof. However, with his track record, I'm willing to give him a bit of benefit of doubt on things and not outright state he's making it up as some have in this and other threads.
      Maybe he has access to some reliable, inside sources. BUT here is the thing... wasn't it Phoronix that stated that STEAM was coming to linux at the end of the summer?

      THIS kind of statement can only be made with a firm commitment from VALVE with a backed up statement from them as the time comes close. What did "we" get... a statement from Valve say they are not working on any linux client a the moment".

      This is just sensational reporting (which resulted in that phoronix article being linked on quite a few sites).

      Maybe he does know something, maybe Valve have directly told him that STEAM is coming to linux but we have to delay it indefinitely due to other things.

      How phoronix has gone about this hasn't been the greatest making phoronix look more like a rumour site than a news site. Better wording with no dated statements (without some upstream reference) would have made the difference.

      now Phoronix just looks like a blogger site after hits as opose to a reliable source of linux news.

      Its a shame Iwant steam on linux (drm and all) but I can't take phoronix word on it

      Comment


      • Originally posted by mugginz View Post
        Good advice. It'll save having to pick up all those dead bodies which are blue in the face :-O
        Oh I doubt they'd be dead... They'd just turn funny shades of blue and purple and just simply pass out. ;-)

        As far as AMD's drivers improving were concerned, all but the most negative of people should have envisioned that the improvements we're seeing would be coming so I don't give him any points for those, especially when AMD said they'd be increasing their effort and targeting those fancy new composited desktop thingies, although that doesn't mean he didn't have any inside info as well.
        Ah, but you don't know the WHOLE story. He said this at a time they WEREN'T saying they were going to improve things. More specifically he just mentioned a codename that's generally not used outside of a few insiders and the people that actually WORKED on the codebase. I know this because I was one of the people that actually did work on it at thier Marlborough, MA offices, just right after AMD bought ATI- they'd not even changed the signs yet. Now, I'd been hired on with the intent to get the Windows effort on ORCA un-logjammed and possibly get the Linux versions of that same codebase out the door (It's why I had taken the job in the first place...). At the time I was let go because of budgetary reasons (Contractor...) we'd not got anything but the ORCA codebase out the door on XP and Vista. There wasn't ANY manpower allocated (nor did it look like there would be for at least 6-12 months in the future...) when I left because they were gathering up to regroup on pretty much everything at that time (part of why I believe that I was let go instead of extended another 6 months...), which was about around the time that Michael started mentioning these things.

        If you don't know the backstory, you'd think that he didn't have anything there... But, he does seem to have had it there, based on what I know.

        My big complaint is one similar to Naib's... He should hold off until it's really closer to fruition before putting something out as a news item. I'm fairly certain that there's a good chance of something coming our way based on the inside info I've got that I can't divulge details on. However, for whatever reason, it's being delayed for right now- and Michael shouldn't have announced it so soon.

        Any rumours that Duke Nukem for Ever was coming that would've made people laugh so it just goes to show that nothings impossible. But... surely the issue isn't that a Linux version of Steam being released is an impossibility, just that there's no publicly available evidence of it and so it's wrong to simply assume it's coming on someone's say so.
        That's because most of those rumors wouldn't have had any way to be believable because the insiders would've been constrained by that court case to keep their traps shut (If you thought an NDA was bad, wait until you're under a Federal Court Gag Order...).

        While we're at it, I guess we could all discuss the possibility of Microsoft releasing MS Office for Linux. It's not impossible, just unlikely.
        Quite a bit more unlikely than

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Naib View Post
          Its a shame Iwant steam on linux (drm and all) but I can't take phoronix word on it
          be sure steam comes to linux.

          i know it and i have differend sources than michael words.

          but no i can't show you my sources.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
            be sure steam comes to linux.

            i know it and i have differend sources than michael words.

            but no i can't show you my sources.
            I have a confession to make.

            I contacted both you an Michael around April the first pretending to be various inside people at valve. I'm afraid I simply made it all up... I meant to tell everyone straight after, honest. but you all seemed so happy... I didn't want to disappoint you all :'(

            Maybe now the real people at valve see how excited we got and how disappointed we all became they'll take sympathy on us and make a Linux steam for real...

            I'm truly sorry if I hurt anyone. I know this joke has gone on to long. I just ask that the opensource community can open their hearts and forgive me.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by mugginz View Post
              Good advice. It'll save having to pick up all those dead bodies which are blue in the face :-O



              As far as AMD's drivers improving were concerned, all but the most negative of people should have envisioned that the improvements we're seeing would be coming so I don't give him any points for those, especially when AMD said they'd be increasing their effort and targeting those fancy new composited desktop thingies, although that doesn't mean he didn't have any inside info as well.




              So no news then, nothing to see here, move along folks ;-)



              Any rumours that Duke Nukem for Ever was coming that would've made people laugh so it just goes to show that nothings impossible. But... surely the issue isn't that a Linux version of Steam being released is an impossibility, just that there's no publicly available evidence of it and so it's wrong to simply assume it's coming on someone's say so.

              While we're at it, I guess we could all discuss the possibility of Microsoft releasing MS Office for Linux. It's not impossible, just unlikely.
              There was a. working. leaked. client. It didn't run any games or such but it did basic things which is realistically all that we need.

              That alone confirms that they're working on it. There is literally no other possible thing that would result in a partial linux client.

              You make it sound like he's crying wolf but he's absolutely right.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Nevertime View Post
                I have a confession to make.

                I contacted both you an Michael around April the first pretending to be various inside people at valve. I'm afraid I simply made it all up... I meant to tell everyone straight after, honest. but you all seemed so happy... I didn't want to disappoint you all :'(

                Maybe now the real people at valve see how excited we got and how disappointed we all became they'll take sympathy on us and make a Linux steam for real...

                I'm truly sorry if I hurt anyone. I know this joke has gone on to long. I just ask that the opensource community can open their hearts and forgive me.
                sorry i'm very dissapointed to you.

                in the past i have an orginal half-live key and i play counter strike in the past then valve comes with steam and makes the mod halflive to an stand anlone game because of steam and DRM i drop halflife and counterstrike completly not because i don't have an orginal key just because i don't like the DRM Steam system.

                on that point i never ever touch an valve game again after they go the steam way!

                and for the record i still hate steam and DRM and i will not touch the linux -steam clind!



                for you and your steam fantasies i can say to you at the start of the linux steam clind Apple pays a lot of money to block the linux clind after this rund out of time valve just need more devs on the mac clinds because of problems after this valve checks out some driver problems in the linux platforms but right now valve wana release steam for linux in the end of the year 2010 or to the first of 2011.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by NoEffex View Post
                  There was a. working. leaked. client. It didn't run any games or such but it did basic things which is realistically all that we need.

                  That alone confirms that they're working on it. There is literally no other possible thing that would result in a partial linux client.

                  You make it sound like he's crying wolf but he's absolutely right.
                  Never underestimate geeks in their spare time. I've done such things - made something run under linux, but the company would in no way sell it, support it, or even want it.
                  That leaked client is in no way confirmation of anything.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
                    Ah, but you don't know the WHOLE story. He said this at a time they WEREN'T saying they were going to improve things. More specifically he just mentioned a codename that's generally not used outside of a few insiders and the people that actually WORKED on the codebase. I know this because I was one of the people that actually did work on it at thier Marlborough, MA offices, just right after AMD bought ATI- they'd not even changed the signs yet. Now, I'd been hired on with the intent to get the Windows effort on ORCA un-logjammed and possibly get the Linux versions of that same codebase out the door (It's why I had taken the job in the first place...). At the time I was let go because of budgetary reasons (Contractor...) we'd not got anything but the ORCA codebase out the door on XP and Vista. There wasn't ANY manpower allocated (nor did it look like there would be for at least 6-12 months in the future...) when I left because they were gathering up to regroup on pretty much everything at that time (part of why I believe that I was let go instead of extended another 6 months...), which was about around the time that Michael started mentioning these things.

                    If you don't know the backstory, you'd think that he didn't have anything there... But, he does seem to have had it there, based on what I know.
                    I accept that on that he did have insider info. That doesn't in my mind mean he has accurate inside info re: Steam on Linux. I maintain that it's possible that he does, but only possible, not certain. I'm unaware of a long track record of previous accurate leaks but then I've only been reading his writings for a couple of years or so so of course I could be wrong :-) I'll continue to not raise a likelyhood of Steam on Linux to anyone considering a shift of platforms.

                    Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
                    My big complaint is one similar to Naib's... He should hold off until it's really closer to fruition before putting something out as a news item. I'm fairly certain that there's a good chance of something coming our way based on the inside info I've got that I can't divulge details on. However, for whatever reason, it's being delayed for right now- and Michael shouldn't have announced it so soon.
                    This is somewhat where I pretty much sit as well assuming that it is coming. The issue of how much weight I put on the value of his leaks aside.

                    Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
                    That's because most of those rumors wouldn't have had any way to be believable because the insiders would've been constrained by that court case to keep their traps shut (If you thought an NDA was bad, wait until you're under a Federal Court Gag Order...).
                    I put this on the list of possible mitigations as to why we're not being given solid info.

                    The trouble with insider info is that sometimes it's true, and sometimes not. Given that we then have to reflect on the track record of the source. For me, the driver info wasn't enough to establish a strong track record. From what I've read of what you say I'd be more inclined to believe you for what it's worth. Additionally, the Steam on Linux info could've been accurate for a time, and then for new reasons could've been canned. On the other hand the success of the Humble Indy Bundle might sure up the business case... Who knows

                    I guess I'm saying I see no reason to believe at this stage with any degree of certainty and wait to be pleasantly surprised if/when? we see it. And obviously the story title was wrong as well ;-)

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by NoEffex View Post
                      There was a. working. leaked. client. It didn't run any games or such but it did basic things which is realistically all that we need.

                      That alone confirms that they're working on it. There is literally no other possible thing that would result in a partial linux client.

                      You make it sound like he's crying wolf but he's absolutely right.
                      I disagree with your assessment of the leaked client. I've been involved with projects that were prototyped but not followed through with though admittedly much smaller fry than we're talking about here. There could be many reasons for that to exist, one (and only one) of which is a production release of Steam on Linux.

                      I do admit though if I saw a leaked engine I'd be a lot more hopeful :-)

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by mugginz View Post
                        I guess I'm saying I see no reason to believe at this stage with any degree of certainty and wait to be pleasantly surprised if/when? we see it.
                        There you go- that's really about all anyone really ought to do on these things. I've got a bit better info so I'm leaning a little bit to the "pro" side, mainly because I don't have it directly from Valve and they can yank any project at any time for any reason (witness UT3...). There's a good chance he's right- and been right on these things. If so, he's guilty of looking for a scoop and probably a bit of a desire to show people what cool things were finally coming our way. So far, that's Michael's real sin on things on this site and the forums. He did it with the LGP rumors (not happy about how that one went down either...). He did it with the fglrx ORCA rollout. He did it with the tech data from AMD. In the end, though, it DID prove out that he was given insider info, allowed to release it, etc.- he just did it probably sooner than he ought to in each instance.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by mugginz View Post
                          On the other hand the success of the Humble Indy Bundle might sure up the business case...
                          Oh, by the way, that DID catch people's attention in the industry. Lots of studios either planning to do versions, doing versions, or wanting ports of things. It wouldn't surprise me if Valve reassessed things in light of this showing we've seen there.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by mugginz View Post
                            Certain hints by some are just that. They could just be funnin' with us for laughs and giggles :-)
                            Surely not! That doesn't sound like Valve at all.

                            Originally posted by Naib View Post
                            NEVER was it once said by Valve that there is going to be a linux client for STEAM, it was suggested by 3rd parties
                            So wtf can it be "official"
                            That's something that's been bugging me right from the start.

                            Comment


                            • Microsoft starts to kill steam.

                              http://www.microsoft.com/games/en-us/press.aspx

                              When Valve do not react now, they will be dead within the next 2 years.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Desti View Post
                                Microsoft starts to kill steam.

                                http://www.microsoft.com/games/en-us/press.aspx

                                When Valve do not react now, they will be dead within the next 2 years.
                                Competition can be a great thing. I doubt mirosofts solution will be bigger than steam... and this is of course good for the prospects of a linux steam. The fact is if their was more alternative steam like products from the start many of them would be supporting linux by now.

                                Though not as important now as I do believe steam is coming to linux, I think if you wanted to make valve release steam for linux people could have made a relatively simple drm free equivalent with cross platform support. Even if it only had basic indie game support valve would not have liked competition on a system they wasn’t supporting themselves.

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