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  • #31
    Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
    you are wrong! wine is an nativ linux app!

    if a companie like AMD support wine and linux! this is the biggest help ever!

    because AMD isn't a gaming software companie!


    same on blizzard.. if they support wine in an high level...

    and the game runs well this IS the REAL help for linux on the desktop!

    because the user don't care! wine or not wine!

    OpenGL°!! isn't linux nativ! if you wana make a linux nativ game code raytracing in c++ compilet on the GCC nativ on the linux kernel!

    OpenGL! isn't linux!
    directX isn't linux!
    there is no diverend if you run an openGL app or an dx app in wine.
    wine makes an openGL app from the dx11 app there is no diverend!
    wine is the nativ openGL! app!

    if you wana be nativ linux you need to kill OpenGL! and go for C++ software based rendering raytracing and pure GCC cpu code!


    but? is this realistic ? no!


    if an companie supports linux fine if the companie supports an real nativ linux app like wine fine!

    Fine!

    fine! and you are wrong!
    Wine is BAD for Linux because it strengthens Windows as the OS. It's an emulator and that's the problem. It's not "native" application and therefore prone to all sorts of problems. Wine is NOT a solution for promoting Linux as a gaming system, it's the exact opposite.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
      and the game runs well this IS the REAL help for linux on the desktop!

      because the user don't care! wine or not wine!
      You are just making general assumptions based on your beliefs or your friends beliefs. There are users who care if the application they need is native to linux or if it has to be run with wine.

      Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
      OpenGL! isn't linux!
      Of course it isn't. Opengl is a specification. Mesa is the linux native implementation of that specification. Saying that opengl is not linux is the same as saying html is not linux. It doesn't make a lot of sense.

      Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
      if an companie supports linux fine if the companie supports an real nativ linux app like wine fine!

      Fine!

      fine! and you are wrong!
      You are very passionate in your beliefs, but don't forget that you can learn a lot if you pay attention to what other users are saying.

      The problem with wine is that it is very ugly in looks and logic. Linux apps that only use X11 are ugly, but windows apps on wine are even worse. Using an application to run another application that was never meant to be run with the first application on top of another operating system isn't very elegant. Sure it may work, but that doesn't change the fact that the programmer could have made a linux native port in the first place, even if it isn't open source. I think this is the problem for most of the people that dislike wine. The problem isn't wine. It's the lack of interest in developing native linux applications. This is not the same as saying that all emulators are bad, because nobody is expecting that Nintendo releases the linux native Super Mario Brothers.

      The problem with linux low adoption rate isn't related to games obviously. It's more of a marketing problem and the fact that windows and even macos have reached critical mass. Everyone uses windows because that's what comes with new computers, and new computers come with windows because that's what everybody uses. The ones (regular users, not scientific researcher or big companies) who don't use windows or mac are the ones that question why should they follow the flock and shouldn't use something else.

      "Remember, you have a choice."

      Oh, and to stay on topic, I'm actually excited that steam could be comming to linux! I see no harm in that.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by rohcQaH View Post
        sooo much misinformation.. and the overlooked elephant in the room:

        What good is a steam client without native games?
        A steam client enables a distribution framework for game devs to get paid for Linux based games, also a way to track how many copies are being sold for Linux. Thus creating a market, Valve is a smart company I think they are putting themselves into a place where they can be the primary platform for the Linux market, which means $$$.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Dragonlord View Post
          Wine is BAD for Linux because it strengthens Windows as the OS. It's an emulator and that's the problem. It's not "native" application and therefore prone to all sorts of problems. Wine is NOT a solution for promoting Linux as a gaming system, it's the exact opposite.
          Wine Is Not an Emulator.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by devius View Post
            The problem with linux low adoption rate isn't related to games obviously. It's more of a marketing problem and the fact that windows and even macos have reached critical mass. Everyone uses windows because that's what comes with new computers, and new computers come with windows because that's what everybody uses. The ones (regular users, not scientific researcher or big companies) who don't use windows or mac are the ones that question why should they follow the flock and shouldn't use something else.
            Right, half-assed, user-hating programs plugged as "drop-in replacements" aside (ref. gimp and photoshop), it is far more than "marketing" and "user inertia" keeping linux off the desktop.

            Oh and thanks for yet another comedy piece about Steam, Michael.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by GNU/Blind View Post
              Wine Is Not an Emulator.
              Not an emulator in the way a console emulator works. It though still hooks itself between the application and the OS providing wrappers for non-supported OS parts. It "emulates" windows as far as is required (including registry and libraries) to make the application work. I don't care what wine devs write on their software, an emulator stays an emulator no matter if it is a wrapper or all the way up to a full virtual machine.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by GNU/Blind View Post
                A steam client enables a distribution framework for game devs to get paid for Linux based games, also a way to track how many copies are being sold for Linux. Thus creating a market, Valve is a smart company I think they are putting themselves into a place where they can be the primary platform for the Linux market, which means $$$.
                Doubt this as Desura is up for the cake too. And in is more open than Steam and thus caters better for the Indie titles which are on Linux more important at the time being (not in the future hopefully). Especially since Indie titles have a higher chance of getting a Linux client. Steam by itself is useless since the games you get on Steam nowadays are mostly all without a Linux client.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Dragonlord View Post
                  Doubt this as Desura is up for the cake too. And in is more open than Steam and thus caters better for the Indie titles which are on Linux more important at the time being (not in the future hopefully). Especially since Indie titles have a higher chance of getting a Linux client. Steam by itself is useless since the games you get on Steam nowadays are mostly all without a Linux client.
                  This is the first I am hearing of Desura. I wonder if Steam is the middleware that has held back the Linux UT3 client. There are quite a few Linux compatible games on steam, not a lot but there are some. All of Id's games, World of goo, ut2004 and probably more, I don't keep up with it too much. I would kill for Rainbow Six Vegas 2 on Linux.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by GNU/Blind View Post
                    There are quite a few Linux compatible games on steam, not a lot but there are some. All of Id's games, World of goo, ut2004 and probably more, I don't keep up with it too much. I would kill for Rainbow Six Vegas 2 on Linux.
                    Also Darwinia, the 'X' Series, SiN, a fair bit of Epic's back catalog...

                    There's so much being offered on Steam, that even if they only launched with the existing Linux ports of games on the service, they'd have a heck of a catalog. DOSBOX titles are an easy fit as well. Add to that the Valve catalog that is certain to be ported before any client launch, and the idea that there's nothing to put on the service for Linux is laughable.

                    That said, It doesn't appear to me that they are anywhere near the announcement stage yet, let alone beta or launch. We're going to be waiting a minute or two.

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                    • #40
                      So, and what does this news article proof? Right, it only proofs that the client "could" run on Linux, but unfortunately that doesn't magically brings us an official supported Steam client from Valve.

                      As long as this proprietary piece of software isn't supported by it's author, even if it may run with a hacked binary, it doesn't makes me excited at all.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Straximus View Post
                        Also Darwinia, the 'X' Series, SiN, a fair bit of Epic's back catalog...

                        There's so much being offered on Steam, that even if they only launched with the existing Linux ports of games on the service, they'd have a heck of a catalog. DOSBOX titles are an easy fit as well. Add to that the Valve catalog that is certain to be ported before any client launch, and the idea that there's nothing to put on the service for Linux is laughable.

                        That said, It doesn't appear to me that they are anywhere near the announcement stage yet, let alone beta or launch. We're going to be waiting a minute or two.
                        Who wants DRM crap dangling out of their arse while they try to play a DOS title or a way-back title? Who buys non-valve titles through steam is either brain sick or a masochist.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by GNU/Blind View Post
                          Wine Is Not an Emulator.
                          You beat me to it... :/

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by GNU/Blind View Post
                            Wine Is Not an Emulator.
                            And Macs Are Not PCs...

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by devius View Post
                              And Macs Are Not PCs...
                              Macs are PCs, by definition. Wine is not an emulator, it is just a software compatibility layer, no different than other libraries.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by aliendude5300 View Post
                                Wine is not an emulator, it is just a software compatibility layer, no different than other libraries.
                                Oh... ok then.

                                I'm off to play some games on my NES software compatibility layer.

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