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  • #61
    Originally posted by Remco View Post
    Which is unfortunate, because the modern API is so much faster, and geometry shaders are especially helpful for subdivisioning.
    I know this. AMD and NVidia know this. However, getting people like 3DS (Catia) to change their code has been...heh...entertaining. AMD and NVidia are loathe to force the issue, though- they make quite a bit of coin supporting boosting in software (and small amounts of special hardware in some cases) these old antiquated modes by transforming that immediate mode stuff into the fastpath stuff for them.

    That's what things like TIMMO is all about.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by 3vi1 View Post
      I really wish that was true, but I don't see that happening. Here's my thinking/observations:

      1) The Windows client update is scheduled to be released specifically today, whereas the Mac version will be released "by the end of the month".

      2) It makes more sense to do these on separate days so that you don't have your technical resources split if you run into multiple issues.

      3) They've hyped the Mac version for two months. Why would they do that, and keep the Linux version "secret"?

      4) It makes sense to release the Mac and Linux client in two different marketing blitzkriegs - so that you get free advertising from the tech sites for Steam on two separate occasions.
      Hmm maybe, though maybe they're keeping it secret because they were paid off to not advertise Linux, but instead will sneak it out the back door so to speak, but who knows. All speculation until it's released, and even though its release, like any software release for Linux, is sure to help Linux in general, I'm personally not too excited by many of their games any way except for a few.

      If you think about it though, that might be fairly "practical", I mean, a major social gathering like Steam tells everyone "THERE'S A LINUX VERSION", that could potentially have a pretty radical impact via unhappy Windows gamers switching to Linux, you never know. Yeah, I'm sure many gamers have heard the term by now, but a gaming portal supporting it? Might be a blow both Microsoft and Apple wouldn't care to bare.

      Just go up to Steve Balmer and shake him and ask him what kind of deals he made with Valve against Linux, I'm sure he'd tell you outright.

      Comment


      • #63
        Steam comes to the Mac:
        WWDC viewers will know it. Some Apple fanboys will like it. When the hype is over more or less a lot of people will know it. This will be nice for Apple but it will not give them a single customer extra because Apple products are costly and Steam hardware surveys show that only a tiny percentage is having expensive hardware; combinations like a 5 year old AMD Athlon 64bit with two cores, but mostly one plus a last generation avarage GPU and about 2GB RAM.

        Steam comes to Linux:
        The www will explode. Mark my words! A lot of people will switch to Ubuntu permanently. And face it; Word ? -> 2003 .doc format is the de facto business standard and PDF. Nothing OpenOffice can't handle nowadays...

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by [Knuckles] View Post
          Yeah because graphics on linux suck because Xorg, mesa, whatever sucks. Then along comes fedora that employs people to work on Xorg, and turn it into a decent display system.

          Then proprietary graphics drivers don't work on this new system, and fedora sucks. Damn you fedora fanboys...

          As for me, still waiting for KMS on proprietary display drivers. And xrandr 1.2.
          If you feel that fglrx's xorg support keeps holding you back just switch to a distro that doesn't have that problem. Example: Ubuntu because they get betas for their releases. Arch has a repository and Gentoo has an overlay server that both offer the beta that Ubuntu uses. Or, you could use a distro that makes sure they ship a fully supported xserver.

          Do something - ANYTHING other than complain on every freakin' forum about your xorg not being supported. Either sell the ATI card or stop using Fedora. Just sayin... at some point you have to be solutions oriented.

          (PS: You said it yourself - it's a new system. The bigger problem to me is Linux went from having only a few bleeding edge distros to only having a few stable ones. When did shipping the latest *stable* and tested version become a bad idea?)

          Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
          ROFLMAO! I'm sure that people say the same thing about Gentoo, Arch, Mint, and Ubuntu users as well.
          No hate for Debian? Man they really have fallen from grace

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Joe Sixpack View Post
            Do something - ANYTHING other than complain on every freakin' forum about your xorg not being supported. Either sell the ATI card or stop using Fedora. Just sayin... at some point you have to be solutions oriented.
            Had you bothered to read my post completely before pressing the "Submit reply" button, you'd notice that I -am- doing something.
            AMD/ATI lost more than 10,000$ of mine and my employer money due to their problematic upstream support. (Including a number of 470's that I'm currently in line for).

            The main problem with your post is not that you dislike Fedora (Seems pointless to me, especially when you consider how many upstream development RedHat/Fedora is doing, but OK), the problem is that somehow ATI/AMD got the notion that if they support Ubuntu upstream, they can ignore X.org releases, and according to your post it seems that you're OK with it. (And far worse, it seems that Ubuntu management is OK with it).

            Talk about being short-sighted.

            - Gilboa
            DEV: Intel S2600C0, 2xE52658V2, 32GB, 4x2TB + 2x3TB, GTX780, F21/x86_64, Dell U2711.
            SRV: Intel S5520SC, 2xX5680, 36GB, 4x2TB, GTX550, F21/x86_64, Dell U2412..
            BACK: Tyan Tempest i5400XT, 2xE5335, 8GB, 3x1.5TB, 9800GTX, F21/x86-64.
            LAP: ASUS N56VJ, i7-3630QM, 16GB, 1TB, 635M, F21/x86_64.

            Comment


            • #66
              so you are working for someone - but you are not using a stable platform like ubuntu lts, Redhat enterprise linux or SLED - and then you are complaining about drivers?

              Sounds - idiotic.

              Comment


              • #67
                So, without knowing anything about me, you:
                A. Assume that I don't use RHEL and CentOS. (False assumption #1)
                B. Assume that using Fedora in work environment is quote "idiotic". (False -and- arrogant assumption #2)

                Just a thought (as you know far better then I what I should and shout not do): Has it ever occurred to you that maybe someone is using RHEL for software deployment, while the development is being done on RHEL-in-VM(s)-under-Fedora, simply because Fedora has far better development tools and desktop environment compared to RHEL 5.x?

                Mind boggling isn't it?

                - Gilboa
                DEV: Intel S2600C0, 2xE52658V2, 32GB, 4x2TB + 2x3TB, GTX780, F21/x86_64, Dell U2711.
                SRV: Intel S5520SC, 2xX5680, 36GB, 4x2TB, GTX550, F21/x86_64, Dell U2412..
                BACK: Tyan Tempest i5400XT, 2xE5335, 8GB, 3x1.5TB, 9800GTX, F21/x86-64.
                LAP: ASUS N56VJ, i7-3630QM, 16GB, 1TB, 635M, F21/x86_64.

                Comment


                • #68
                  a) if you use rhel (or centos) then your distro is supported by amd's drivers and you don't have to care about some superduper new Xorg server.
                  b) it is - because fedora is constantly broken.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by energyman View Post
                    so you are working for someone - but you are not using a stable platform like ubuntu lts, Redhat enterprise linux or SLED - and then you are complaining about drivers?

                    Sounds - idiotic.
                    Ubuntu isn't exactly the pinnacle of stability

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by energyman View Post
                      a) if you use rhel (or centos) then your distro is supported by amd's drivers and you don't have to care about some superduper new Xorg server.
                      b) it is - because fedora is constantly broken.
                      "Westly: You're that smart?
                      Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
                      Westly: Yes.
                      Vizzini: Morons."

                      ... Don't lose your day job.

                      - Gilboa
                      DEV: Intel S2600C0, 2xE52658V2, 32GB, 4x2TB + 2x3TB, GTX780, F21/x86_64, Dell U2711.
                      SRV: Intel S5520SC, 2xX5680, 36GB, 4x2TB, GTX550, F21/x86_64, Dell U2412..
                      BACK: Tyan Tempest i5400XT, 2xE5335, 8GB, 3x1.5TB, 9800GTX, F21/x86-64.
                      LAP: ASUS N56VJ, i7-3630QM, 16GB, 1TB, 635M, F21/x86_64.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by gilboa View Post
                        Had you bothered to read my post completely before pressing the "Submit reply" button, you'd notice that I -am- doing something.
                        AMD/ATI lost more than 10,000$ of mine and my employer money due to their problematic upstream support. (Including a number of 470's that I'm currently in line for).

                        The main problem with your post is not that you dislike Fedora (Seems pointless to me, especially when you consider how many upstream development RedHat/Fedora is doing, but OK), the problem is that somehow ATI/AMD got the notion that if they support Ubuntu upstream, they can ignore X.org releases, and according to your post it seems that you're OK with it. (And far worse, it seems that Ubuntu management is OK with it).

                        Talk about being short-sighted.

                        - Gilboa
                        I have nothing against Fedora - it just isn't for me. If you are an AMD enthusiast then it probably isn't for you either - regardless if you realize it or not. AMD/ATI should definitely make it their business to support the most recent stable xorg release. The question is whether or not the version users are screaming for is stable yet. If it is, then they need to tighten up a whole lot. But if it isn't - that's a fail on the part of the distro shipping it. But regardless if it's stable or not, it's the distro's job to ship a cohesive set of packages. Don't ship me crappy KDE 4 when the KDE devs told you it wasn't stable and wasn't intended for mainstream use, and don't ship me xorg 7.x unless you know both Nvidia and ATI support it, or know for a fact they will support it soon.

                        The latter, of course, will never happen because Fedora's goal for about 2 years now is to provide nothing but completely free software. So why the hell you are trying to use proprietary drivers with a distro designed in opposition to proprietary software is beyond me.

                        Originally posted by gilboa View Post
                        So, without knowing anything about me, you:
                        A. Assume that I don't use RHEL and CentOS. (False assumption #1)
                        B. Assume that using Fedora in work environment is quote "idiotic". (False -and- arrogant assumption #2)
                        I agree with point A, but he's right about B. Fedora was introduced as a "testbed" for RHEL. That's why they always went bleeding edge over tried and tested. If the package is already known to be stable you won't find it in Fedora because they use the distro to test the unstable version. That's hardly a choice distro for a production environment.

                        Maybe this has changed in recently but that's the way it was for years so that's why a lot of people feel the way they do about Fedora. Personally, I'd much rather have stability over bleeding edge - which is why I switched from Fedora to Slackware years ago. I also got tired of their compiler chain, which has been broken since I tried Red Hat 7. That's the other part of what energyman was talking about when he said it's always broken.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Joe,

                          How can you possibly assume that Fedora unsuitable as a workstation, without knowing what I do for a living? Have it occurred to you that maybe having the bleeding edge development tools and virtualization tools is -exactly- what we need?

                          Fedora doesn't fit -your- needs. It may, or may not be broken according to what -you- consider as broken. Get my point?

                          As for subject at hand, since Fedora 1, nVidia drivers have been rarely broken due to new Fedora features. (I personally only remember to major breakages: 4K_STACKS, and X.org bug in F12)

                          You choose the hardware according to the software, not the other way around. If nVidia starts breaking things (I doubt it), I'll consider switching hardware. (Hence my preference toward good OSS drivers)

                          - Gilboa
                          DEV: Intel S2600C0, 2xE52658V2, 32GB, 4x2TB + 2x3TB, GTX780, F21/x86_64, Dell U2711.
                          SRV: Intel S5520SC, 2xX5680, 36GB, 4x2TB, GTX550, F21/x86_64, Dell U2412..
                          BACK: Tyan Tempest i5400XT, 2xE5335, 8GB, 3x1.5TB, 9800GTX, F21/x86-64.
                          LAP: ASUS N56VJ, i7-3630QM, 16GB, 1TB, 635M, F21/x86_64.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by gilboa View Post
                            How can you possibly assume that Fedora unsuitable as a workstation, without knowing what I do for a living? Have it occurred to you that maybe having the bleeding edge development tools and virtualization tools is -exactly- what we need?
                            Gilboa,

                            How can you possibly assume that everything that accounts for you, accounts for the rest of the world too? Then continue in speaking "us".

                            Fedora doesn't fit -your- needs. It may, or may not be broken according to what -you- consider as broken. Get my point?
                            Let me put it this way as I am actually using Fedora fulltime now that I have discovered that with KDE 4.4 Fedora is not as horribly broken as with Gnome (Oh, the irony!); the desktop freezes at random intervals of about 10 seconds. Totem is horribly broken (want to playback that rendered ray traced movie (remember: workstation!)? Aaaaaaahhw). And a lot more...

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
                              Gilboa,

                              How can you possibly assume that everything that accounts for you, accounts for the rest of the world too? Then continue in speaking "us".
                              Seriously, are you for real?
                              "us" can be:
                              Me and my family.
                              Me and my friends.
                              My company.
                              My previous employer (past term).

                              Let me put it this way as I am actually using Fedora fulltime now that I have discovered that with KDE 4.4 Fedora is not as horribly broken as with Gnome (Oh, the irony!); the desktop freezes at random intervals of about 10 seconds. Totem is horribly broken (want to playback that rendered ray traced movie (remember: workstation!)? Aaaaaaahhw). And a lot more...
                              OK. Thanks for sharing. Not sure why it was relevant, hopefully you feel better now that you got if off you chest.

                              Back to the original (sub-)subject.
                              Again (slowly...), Fedora suite -me- and people -I- work with. ("US")
                              -I- buy nVidia hardware for my own use and for the people -I- work with ("US") because nVidia has better bleeding edge support which -we- need.
                              -I- find it inexcusable that ATI/AMD has yet to support a 7 month old X.org 7.4 release. (Let alone the newer X.org 7.5)
                              -I- prefer to use OSS drivers and willing to pay a hefty price for it (E.g. buy hardware twice as expensive for the same performance level), but for now, nVidia is the only viable option for -me- (or -us-).

                              How could I possibly make it easier to understand? Should I start using bold letters and small words?

                              - Gilboa
                              DEV: Intel S2600C0, 2xE52658V2, 32GB, 4x2TB + 2x3TB, GTX780, F21/x86_64, Dell U2711.
                              SRV: Intel S5520SC, 2xX5680, 36GB, 4x2TB, GTX550, F21/x86_64, Dell U2412..
                              BACK: Tyan Tempest i5400XT, 2xE5335, 8GB, 3x1.5TB, 9800GTX, F21/x86-64.
                              LAP: ASUS N56VJ, i7-3630QM, 16GB, 1TB, 635M, F21/x86_64.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Just to point out - I'm using xorg-server 1.7 on Gentoo, with fglrx. AMD released a beta driver to support it - they keep track with what's available on supported distros (in this case, Ubuntu).
                                On a topic related note: if Valve ever release a Steam client, they might do something similar and only support specific distros. Of course, I'm sure Steam isn't as reliant upon a specific version of xorg as graphics drivers are.

                                Comment

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