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  • Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
    And the reason that they're that way is more than just DMCA in the States- it's a Derivative work, folks. If you don't have a license like the GPL to allow you that, you're actually committing an act of infringement there.
    Not sure if i agree with that, but thats from it now.

    But please answer this question. If valve doesn't like what is happening why those files are still in publicity? And would valve really expect that we dont try to see if we can get them working? And there has actually been updates on those. It is not hard for them to prevent unauthorized user's from getting them.

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    • Originally posted by eXlin View Post
      I am completely fine with what you have done and i think it's not harmfull. Actually quite opposite, it is indicating that there are linux users interested of gaming.
      Not in a USEFUL manner. Business types DO NOT THINK THE WAY WE DO. They will freak out at some threshold (we're close here guys) and pull the damn plug on it all. They're control freaks for starters- and you're taking that away from them with all of this.

      And now if some1 think's valve is believing that we think we can get games free raise your hands. Or this is chase off game publishers?
      It's not about "getting free games"- and they won't see it that way. It's about "losing control" of a situation- and they don't like that at all. To the point of axing things. By us doing it, we're risking chasing them off for some time to come. This isn't something you want to be doing. None of us actually do at this point.

      There is long history of making game cracks, but if i have understood correctly in steam games pirating % is lot lower than average without being crappy unusable drm (like ubisoft's recent ones).
      This remark is irrelevant to the real concern here. More to the point, there's a long history of all sorts of unacceptable actions- and the history doesn't make it any more acceptable.

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      • Originally posted by eXlin View Post
        Not sure if i agree with that, but thats from it now.

        But please answer this question. If valve doesn't like what is happening why those files are still in publicity? And would valve really expect that we dont try to see if we can get them working? And there has actually been updates on those. It is not hard for them to prevent unauthorized user's from getting them.
        Two words...

        Beta.
        Test.

        More specifically, it's not public in the sense that a court would likely apply for it. Can you surf to it from their website or find it with a bot trawl? No? It's not "public"- you have to have been a subscriber of their service to know where that URL that gave you the hint was at. Just because it's not locked down with a password or other authentication means doesn't make it "public".

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        • Originally posted by Remco View Post
          I don't believe a configuration change constitutes enough material to be a copyrightable work of any kind, let alone a derivative work. This is a trivial patch, which (as a consequence) does not crack any copy protection or cause any commercial damage.
          Ahh... But it does cause commercial damage. PR, advertising, etc. are going to be mucked with. Remember, the people in this industry tend to be control freaks over "their stuff". We're taking at least part of that control away from them and spoiling their PR that they planned and allocated money for- which IS commercial damage.

          Please take your techie/hacker hats off for just a moment and try to see things the way that a pure businessman would see this stuff.

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          • Svartalf: We'll all of us has pretty good arguments, so can't be sure witch is correct road (and road valve wants us to go). And i am ready to let it go for while. I saw what i wanted, which is strong hint about steam client coming for linux. And thank's for every1 who got us those screenshots.

            But to be honest i don't believe client is in beta stage yet.

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            • Originally posted by Remco View Post
              I don't believe a configuration change constitutes enough material to be a copyrightable work of any kind, let alone a derivative work. This is a trivial patch, which (as a consequence) does not crack any copy protection or cause any commercial damage.
              Oh...and even if it's just a "trivial" patch and you're not committing an infringement... You're taking the control away from Valve in a way that they're very likely not going to like. The likely reason these files are in a place we can find them (Repeat to yourselves, "this isn't public access...just because I can download them doesn't make them 'public'...") is that they're in a closed beta test on the full, live production system in preparation for release.

              What good is it going to DO you if you've no games to play on it? You'll have to jump through hoops with WINE anyhow without native titles- and Steam, while it's less effective, does work within WINE right now.

              What end are you guys thinking you're accomplishing by this?

              They KNOW that we want games- they wouldn't be doing this in the first place if they didn't know that. Hacking on this this way isn't going to tell them something they didn't already know, save that they can't control the situation in a manner they'd like for it to be.

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              • What end? None. Everyone is just having a bit of fun with it. Ultimately, Valve is in control of their platform. They are free to take down the URL that provides the client binaries and the updates any time they want. If they did that, then nobody would have the client because nobody is sharing it around.

                Besides, even with all the tinkering around, the client is completely unusable. We are able to login... and nothing more. We've gotten to see a few different windows with no text and that is it.

                Again, the ball is and will remain in Valve's hands. Even if this was an announced and public beta test, people would tinker around with it.

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                • If the files are available without any authentication on the server, then they are public. And at the moment, they're public available, with or without a direct link from Valve.

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                  • Originally posted by eXlin View Post
                    Svartalf: We'll all of us has pretty good arguments, so can't be sure witch is correct road (and road valve wants us to go). And i am ready to let it go for while. I saw what i wanted, which is strong hint about steam client coming for linux. And thank's for every1 who got us those screenshots.

                    But to be honest i don't believe client is in beta stage yet.
                    I think it's pretty obvious that it's being tested internally and is not ready for public consumption. Everyone needs to just chill out and be patient, the client seems a lot further along than any indication we've had in the past. While you probably have every right to tinker with it I think that Svartalf is right on this matter, if you continue down this road you're going to piss Valve off. You probably are not going to have to wait very long anyway, so just hold your horses.

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                    • Before this thread, the clues to Steam's Linux version were vague. This confirmed that it is actually the Linux version of the store, and not something else. That's journalism, and nothing more.

                      I also think there is no problem with taking Svartalf's advice and just letting it rest now. What more could we hope to achieve? I honestly think Valve is not such a hysterical company that would freak out about this, but we don't have to push our luck.

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                      • Originally posted by Compholio View Post
                        I think it's pretty obvious that it's being tested internally and is not ready for public consumption. Everyone needs to just chill out and be patient, the client seems a lot further along than any indication we've had in the past. While you probably have every right to tinker with it I think that Svartalf is right on this matter, if you continue down this road you're going to piss Valve off. You probably are not going to have to wait very long anyway, so just hold your horses.
                        i see where you are coming from, but why would tinkering with it piss valve off?

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                        • Originally posted by CRAY4 View Post
                          i see where you are coming from, but why would tinkering with it piss valve off?
                          Just like any company there are manager-types, people who won't understand why you are tinkering with an unreleased product. Those people will automatically jump to whatever their worst case scenario is. So, I would imagine that they will likely believe that you are trying to figure out how the client works in order to get games for free. All of this talk about the DMCA is not going to help. If they start to believe that making a Linux client makes the reverse engineering task easier (even though it doesn't, the same tools exist for Windows and Mac) then those people might panic and pull the plug, no matter how much their engineers try to reassure them.

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                          • Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
                            Oh...and even if it's just a "trivial" patch and you're not committing an infringement... You're taking the control away from Valve in a way that they're very likely not going to like. The likely reason these files are in a place we can find them (Repeat to yourselves, "this isn't public access...just because I can download them doesn't make them 'public'...") is that they're in a closed beta test on the full, live production system in preparation for release.

                            What good is it going to DO you if you've no games to play on it? You'll have to jump through hoops with WINE anyhow without native titles- and Steam, while it's less effective, does work within WINE right now.

                            What end are you guys thinking you're accomplishing by this?

                            They KNOW that we want games- they wouldn't be doing this in the first place if they didn't know that. Hacking on this this way isn't going to tell them something they didn't already know, save that they can't control the situation in a manner they'd like for it to be.
                            What if I told you I emailed Dan Berger, the Valve developer of the Linux client, the patches that were made? Would it make you more angry?

                            Spoiler: I already did

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                            • Originally posted by j883376 View Post
                              What if I told you I emailed Dan Berger, the Valve developer of the Linux client, the patches that were made? Would it make you more angry?

                              Spoiler: I already did
                              lol ouch, i emailed him too asking a few questions

                              but that probably isnt a very good thing to do, its nice, but not good... did he reply?

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                              • Originally posted by CRAY4 View Post
                                lol ouch, i emailed him too asking a few questions

                                but that probably isnt a very good thing to do, its nice, but not good... did he reply?
                                Emailing him questions is useless. He's not gonna reply.

                                I emailed him useful files, the patches. Also, he probably won't read anything till tomorrow. And even still, I don't think he would be allowed to email me back about it as that could violate whatever NDAs he could be under.

                                Rest assured, I'll be monitoring my server logs for hits from Valve IPs to the patch files though.

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