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Proof In Steam's Mac Client Of Linux Support

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  • #31
    Ignoring the troll for a second, we again put far too much trust into the token and string.

    In reality, the Steam UI frontend is also used to install servers and SDKs.
    As such, porting the Steam UI by itself doesn't necessarily means that Valve is porting the Source engine to Linux - far from it.

    - Gilboa
    DEV: Intel S2600C0, 2xE52658V2, 32GB, 4x2TB + 2x3TB, GTX780, F21/x86_64, Dell U2711.
    SRV: Intel S5520SC, 2xX5680, 36GB, 4x2TB, GTX550, F21/x86_64, Dell U2412..
    BACK: Tyan Tempest i5400XT, 2xE5335, 8GB, 3x1.5TB, 9800GTX, F21/x86-64.
    LAP: ASUS N56VJ, i7-3630QM, 16GB, 1TB, 635M, F21/x86_64.

    Comment


    • #32
      a) There is proof when I see it working.
      b) Steam, mkay, Not actually the software I waited for on Linux (DRM, online, spying,...) but if their actual GAMES would be ported then, well I'd consider messing around with that steam system.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by dagger View Post
        EA games pledged it support for Meego (which is based on standard freedesktop.org architecture), which gives a bit of hope they will release games not only for mobiles, but also for desktops. I wonder if Valve gonna beat them.
        Interesting, this was news to me. Considering that Meego is now targeting both normal laptops and (budget) desktops it would probably make sense for Valve to push Steam into the same area (if not the Source games).

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by gilboa View Post
          Code:
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                          | Please don't feed the troll * |
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          If you think I am trolling then obviously you haven't got a firm grip on reality.

          If Valve releases a client for Linux this is what they have to come up against:
          - Distributions who use different Kernels and Xorg versions.
          - People who run OSS graphics drivers such as Norveau which doesn't even have stable 3D APIs.
          - People who run ATI's binary driver which has serious 3D performance and stability problems.
          - People who run Compiz which is known to interfere with 3D games, from personal experience, this is true for example mouse leaving the screen and unable to move the character in FPS like Prey.
          - Poor support for games in Xorg, for example, playing a game in a different resolution to your desktop resolution Xorg cannot recover your desktop resolution after you have exited a 3D game.
          - Poor support for dual-screen configurations in Xorg where you play a game and often the graphics are either messed up or stretched across your screens because Xorg doesn't have proper dual screen support.
          - On certain distribution configurations a mere security update can break your graphics drivers

          etc.. etc..
          So the only people who could actually play games on Steam Linux are people who are running NVIDIA's binary driver.

          Don't get me wrong, I love running Linux as my main operating system but I think that its not ready for mainstream gaming.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by bugmenot View Post
            If you think I am trolling then obviously you haven't got a firm grip on reality.
            Even though I'm most likely wasting my time, I'll byte.
            Lets see who can't play source games under Windows, shall we?
            1. Desktops that use IGP chipsets. (According to the last report, we are talking about, what, ~60% of the market?)
            2. netbooks. (Unless you bought an ION netbook, I'll be polite and assume that 5% of all netbooks use this chipset.)
            3. Notebooks. (According to my supplier, ~50% of all the computers he sells are notebooks, ~40% desktops, 10% servers, most of the notebooks [1/5] use IGPs)
            4. Olders desktops. (Neither nVidia nor ATI support >3 y/o cards. Good luck trying to install games on a P4/2.4HT with 6600AGP.
            5. People that prefer (or do not know how) to use MS-supplied drivers.

            So, in short, unless you have recent hardware (Say GF8xxx / ATI 3xxx and above) coupled with a recent platform (Athlon64X2 / C2D and above), you're most likely screwed.

            ... Here's the thing, the same hardware will run nicely under Linux, unless, of course, you <b>choose</b> to use OSS drivers.
            In this case, the performance you'll get will be on-par, if not better than the VESA drivers that XP used when faced with recent hardware.

            Are we done?

            - Gilboa
            DEV: Intel S2600C0, 2xE52658V2, 32GB, 4x2TB + 2x3TB, GTX780, F21/x86_64, Dell U2711.
            SRV: Intel S5520SC, 2xX5680, 36GB, 4x2TB, GTX550, F21/x86_64, Dell U2412..
            BACK: Tyan Tempest i5400XT, 2xE5335, 8GB, 3x1.5TB, 9800GTX, F21/x86-64.
            LAP: ASUS N56VJ, i7-3630QM, 16GB, 1TB, 635M, F21/x86_64.

            Comment


            • #36
              Forgot the reset:
              X.org, Why on earth should Valve care about it? I'm using binary games that were compiled against XFree86 (!!!) / i386 and they work just fine under F12/x86_64...
              As for Compiz, if you're stupid enough to run 3D studio under Windows 7 and start a game you'll get the same effect: lousy performance.
              This is why anyone with half a brain disable composition before starting heavy 3D application or game. And this is why most distributions doesn't enable composition (Compiz / KDE-effects) by default.
              If you're smart enough to enable, you should be smart enough to suspend it.

              - Gilboa
              DEV: Intel S2600C0, 2xE52658V2, 32GB, 4x2TB + 2x3TB, GTX780, F21/x86_64, Dell U2711.
              SRV: Intel S5520SC, 2xX5680, 36GB, 4x2TB, GTX550, F21/x86_64, Dell U2412..
              BACK: Tyan Tempest i5400XT, 2xE5335, 8GB, 3x1.5TB, 9800GTX, F21/x86-64.
              LAP: ASUS N56VJ, i7-3630QM, 16GB, 1TB, 635M, F21/x86_64.

              Comment


              • #37
                (Someone please enable EDIT!)
                Back when I was a Windows developer (mostly low-level stuff in C), my primary OS was NT (3.5.1/4.0/2K).
                You cannot even being to imagine the hoops I had to go through to get Win95 games running under NT4 and Windows 2000.

                Trust me, running games under Linux is -easy-.

                - Gilboa
                DEV: Intel S2600C0, 2xE52658V2, 32GB, 4x2TB + 2x3TB, GTX780, F21/x86_64, Dell U2711.
                SRV: Intel S5520SC, 2xX5680, 36GB, 4x2TB, GTX550, F21/x86_64, Dell U2412..
                BACK: Tyan Tempest i5400XT, 2xE5335, 8GB, 3x1.5TB, 9800GTX, F21/x86-64.
                LAP: ASUS N56VJ, i7-3630QM, 16GB, 1TB, 635M, F21/x86_64.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Agreed. I run compiz and don't disable it for games. Call me stupid but it works for me.

                  And of course, with your point, I can easily pick up any game and run it under win2k can't I??

                  The rest of it I'm sure you guys will understand..

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Whoa go the spam !! Great way of getting your point across Gilboa !!

                    Originally posted by gilboa View Post
                    Forgot the reset:
                    X.org, Why on earth should Valve care about it? I'm using binary games that were compiled against XFree86 (!!!) / i386 and they work just fine under F12/x86_64...
                    As for Compiz, if you're stupid enough to run 3D studio under Windows 7 and start a game you'll get the same effect: lousy performance.
                    This is why anyone with half a brain disable composition before starting heavy 3D application or game. And this is why most distributions doesn't enable composition (Compiz / KDE-effects) by default.
                    If you're smart enough to enable, you should be smart enough to suspend it.

                    - Gilboa
                    If someone had "half a brain" they would realize that the most popular distribution (Ubuntu) enables Compiz by default when it detects a compatible graphics card/driver. Someone with "half a brain" would also realize that Compiz is not really an application rather a core OS feature. So your point is invalid because there are many users that haven't enabled compiz that are running it.

                    Originally posted by gilboa View Post
                    Even though I'm most likely wasting my time, I'll byte.
                    Lets see who can't play source games under Windows, shall we?
                    1. Desktops that use IGP chipsets. (According to the last report, we are talking about, what, ~60% of the market?)
                    2. netbooks. (Unless you bought an ION netbook, I'll be polite and assume that 5% of all netbooks use this chipset.)
                    3. Notebooks. (According to my supplier, ~50% of all the computers he sells are notebooks, ~40% desktops, 10% servers, most of the notebooks [1/5] use IGPs)
                    4. Olders desktops. (Neither nVidia nor ATI support >3 y/o cards. Good luck trying to install games on a P4/2.4HT with 6600AGP.
                    5. People that prefer (or do not know how) to use MS-supplied drivers.


                    - Gilboa
                    Geez, you typed all that out without realizing the whole point of what I was talking about ?? I was talking about SOFTWARE not HARDWARE. Of course people are going to realize that they are not going to run the latest games on older hardware and netbooks .. I mean any old noob knows that. So again your point is invalid.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      I hope this will be released, but i'm more inclined to believe it's an internal Valve only client like the blizzard WoW one.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by bugmenot View Post
                        Whoa go the spam !! Great way of getting your point across Gilboa !!
                        I assume the you failed to noticed the "EDIT doesn't work" part (...)

                        Geez, you typed all that out without realizing the whole point of what I was talking about ?? I was talking about SOFTWARE not HARDWARE. Of course people are going to realize that they are not going to run the latest games on older hardware and netbooks .. I mean any old noob knows that. So again your point is invalid.
                        One of three options, either my English is going down the drain (quite possibly), your reading comprehensions is lacking (Se above...) or you are doing your best to argue a non-issue. (Read: trolling)
                        Let me spell it out for you.... SLOWLY:

                        1. Recent distribution + nVidia hardware + nVidia blob drivers + recent platform should perform more-or-less on-par with Windows XP. (And I've got numbers to back my case)
                        2. Linux users tend to be far more computer proficient, and tend to select their hardware accordingly (do you claim otherwise?).
                        3. Linux users are used to living in a no-support / community support environments.
                        4. Linux users are far better accustomed to filing meaningful bug reports and support request.
                        5. At least according to Phoronix' own surveys, nVidia's Linux market share (percentage wise) is far higher then their global market share. (By an order of magnitude) and on part with their Valve market share. (Even though Valves surveys target gamers while Phoronix' surveys target the general Linux-using public)

                        So, if you do the math:
                        Linux users are more likely to have Source-engine compatible hardware (Repeat: Recent distribution + nVidia hardware + nVidia blob drivers + recent platform) and are far more-likely to be able to fix their own problems (as opposed to flooding the tech support lines with "Crysis no workie on my single-core-ATOM with 945 chipset!" calls) than their Windows-using counter-parts.
                        So in short, technically speaking, the Linux eco-system is (far) better than the Windows eco-system. (Do I hear applause?)

                        Now, I doubt that Valve will port Source engine to Linux (most likely because of the limited user-base) but technical merits have nothing to do with.

                        Are we done yet?

                        - Gilboa
                        DEV: Intel S2600C0, 2xE52658V2, 32GB, 4x2TB + 2x3TB, GTX780, F21/x86_64, Dell U2711.
                        SRV: Intel S5520SC, 2xX5680, 36GB, 4x2TB, GTX550, F21/x86_64, Dell U2412..
                        BACK: Tyan Tempest i5400XT, 2xE5335, 8GB, 3x1.5TB, 9800GTX, F21/x86-64.
                        LAP: ASUS N56VJ, i7-3630QM, 16GB, 1TB, 635M, F21/x86_64.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by faemir View Post
                          I hope this will be released, but i'm more inclined to believe it's an internal Valve only client like the blizzard WoW one.
                          Seems a little weird that a company that makes games for Windows (and Mac recently) only would bother porting their whole client to a platform that only a few of their server devs would use, and then put it on their public web servers though, doesn't it?

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by bell View Post
                            Once a major distributor starts supporting linux I think they will discover lots of people who never buy any games starting to spend their money.

                            And steam would be ideal, almost as easy installing games via steam as we're used to via apt-get/yum.

                            I for one would buy more games. I hate dual-booting, so the effort of playing a game is not worth it. I'm typically a casual gamer ("lots" of kids, I don't have the time for extended periods of hard core gaming any more) and don't play games since I can't fire up a game for 30 minutes of entertainment (which usually stretches into the late hours of the night) without spending several minutes dualbooting. Which also means that It'l take time getting back into where I was before I started gaming as well. (Hibernate on linux, boot windows, play, play, shutdown windows, restore hibernated linux works fairly well)

                            I'm definitely going to buy much more games once (casual) games are more available! (And games like Dragon Age) Wine is great, as long as a game works "out-of-the-box". When "fiddling" is needed, I don't have the time.
                            +1, though I'd rather pay essentially a "commission" price for a pre-paid open source game if the demo or whatnot seems good instead of for closed source software, since closed source is a throw-away temporary fix. Those are fine, but again, contributing to open source is much more appealing if only someone would create a popular, large "network" for such a thing, like Steam, since having lots of users aware of it of course would be crucial for such a thing, not to mention ways for users to be able to trust it.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by dagger View Post
                              EA games pledged it support for Meego (which is based on standard freedesktop.org architecture), which gives a bit of hope they will release games not only for mobiles, but also for desktops. I wonder if Valve gonna beat them.
                              Meego would be much better than Android due to that, yes. Hopefully for Google's sake, Chrome OS will also use Linux standards, but I'm not sure if it does or not. Unifying Linux as a "platform" so that all Linux users can easily share programs, packages, files, etc is paramount in order for Linux users to have more freedom, as well as everyone wishing to make software for Linux newbies or anyone not wishing to compile or to learn how (yeah yeah, it's not hard, though dependency hell is definitely annoying).

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                              • #45
                                http://www.bugmenot.com/view/phoronix.com

                                @User bugmenot: (nelson voice) HAHA!

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