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Nexuiz Gets Forked, Turned Into Xonotic

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  • #16
    If you agreed to have your code re-licensed, then "the founder" had every right to do what he did.

    If you never agreed to anything like that, maybe you people ought to get together (there's pretty many of you) and legally challenge what happened. Organizations like gpl-violations.org will probably help you.

    If you don't do anything, then you should be aware that this will surely be viewed as you silently agreeing to what happened.

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    • #17
      The reason for forking Nexuiz is *not* being "anti capitalist", it's about giving control to the community.

      Most players and developers have absolutely nothing against Nexuiz going onto consoles and some key people making an income from it. Actually, I am curious and excited as the new console game looks rather good (it's using the normal engine PC Nexuiz uses, but with completely new content) and the gameplay looks like some fun: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGYYnZQPZdU

      Looks like serious effort to me.

      Also it seems that legally everything is okay, too. The whole content is new. The engine is properly licensed with both the engine contributors and id software. The gamecode is either used with permission or possibly derived from Nexuiz 1.0, which originally was not GPLed.

      The key problem is naming - the new game is simply called "Nexuiz", no subtitle, just "Nexuiz", which may highly decrease visibility of the original Nexuiz once reviews and news stories are concentrating on the console Nexuiz.

      This naming move came as a surprise to basically all current developers. The founder of Alientrap, Lee Vermeulen, who made Nexuiz a reality, but wasn't involved with Nexuiz development beyond Nexuiz 1.1, apparently licensed the name to Illfonic without contacting those who kept improving the game for all those years.

      Personally I have deep respect for Lee Vermeulen and others working on console Nexuiz and with the best of luck with this new project, which also contributes back to the GPLed game engine (Darkplaces received several new features directly stemming from work on console Nexuiz, so GPL Nexuiz/Xonotic will benefit to some degree, too), but I can understand the community of players and developers to be somewhat alienated.

      There are exciting plans for Xonotic, it's a great opportunity to throw out bad and mediocre content and once again raising the bar for 100% open-sourced games.

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      • #18
        Xonotic. Can't say I find the name appealing. It has an illfonic ring to it and will forever remind me of that. Hope it all works out in the end and I can't wait for the first playable release.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by RealNC View Post
          If you agreed to have your code re-licensed, then "the founder" had every right to do what he did.
          The legal right, maybe. But the moral right? Just because you can get away with being a dick does not mean it is acceptable to be a dick. Don't be a dick.

          Many free software projects require copyright assignment. This makes legal matters much more manageable. But here you can see one of the pitfalls.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by SavageX View Post
            The reason for forking Nexuiz ... for 100% open-sourced games.
            Finally a reasonable statement. Please do post more often here sir!

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            • #21
              Originally posted by SavageX View Post
              Personally I have deep respect for Lee Vermeulen and others working on console Nexuiz and with the best of luck with this new project, which also contributes back to the GPLed game engine (Darkplaces received several new features directly stemming from work on console Nexuiz, so GPL Nexuiz/Xonotic will benefit to some degree, too)
              But that's exactly the opposite of what we've been reading. Just for clarity purposes could you elaborate please?

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Joe Sixpack View Post
                But that's exactly the opposite of what we've been reading. Just for clarity purposes could you elaborate please?
                LordHavoc, the main engine developer, is contracted for console Nexuiz. He has spent the last few months making Darkplaces run on the Playstation 3 - and making it run well.

                Some changes the GPLed Darkplaces engine received:

                - A Cg renderer was newly created (the Playstation 3 version uses GL-ES with Cg to draw stuff). This can benefit people having ARB shaders but no GLSL (not very common, but that engine addition was GPLed anyway).
                - The engine is now consuming memory more carefully (that's plain necessary on Playstation, but useful for other systems, too).
                - Various speed optimizations
                - New render effects like cubemap reflections and fog
                - I think some bugfixing here and there (perhaps not strictly related to the console port, but LordHavoc dislikes bugs anyway)

                Overall the engine is in a very good shape.

                The console Nexuiz won't contribute new content (maps, music, textures, sounds or whatever) to the content pool of the GPLed Nexuiz. Changes to the gamecode (modes, weapon balance, movement etc. etc. - think of it as gamerules, interpreted by the engine) won't be contributed either.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Joe Sixpack View Post
                  But that's exactly the opposite of what we've been reading.
                  Please, don't take this as an offence. The sole reason explaining that contradiction is because you were reading shit. Which, to some extent, would be your fault for not looking up the information if you were interested in this issue. With 115 posts you probably know better than relying on what people write over here (and that of course includes me).

                  ; )

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                  • #24
                    @Remco: OK, didn't know that.

                    However legal I do agree that it is unethical. But my post was more or less an 'after effect', as I was saying that there's no problem in Nexuiz getting better under a new name.

                    People learn from mistakes. You now learned the hard lesson to make it more decentralized. That in itself is better, right?

                    So what I was saying is that as of now there isn't a problem

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                    • #25
                      I understand that the old nexuiz name is maybe not the best idea to stay with when a game with different gfx/gameplay will use it - even when it is console only there will always be comparisons made. I don't think it is critical that the new console nexuiz gfx/levels are not gpl or does really somebody miss those then? For all id engines and other open source engines there are lots of open content, so this should not matter. It needs some time to get used to the new (unexpected) name now, but thats nothing a real oss gamer could not handle As the engine will most likely be get even better i hope we see soon something new to play.

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                      • #26
                        Why on earth did they use the name Nexuiz in the first place? XBox junkies don't even know it. What is there to gain in insisting to use the same name as an unknown game? (Unknown to console gamers.) This hurts the original and provides no benefits to the console game.

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                        • #27
                          I guess they though that with the name popping up on consoles, users would start to get interested in the original project or at least look into it to see what it's all about.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by yotambien View Post
                            Please, don't take this as an offence. The sole reason explaining that contradiction is because you were reading shit. Which, to some extent, would be your fault for not looking up the information if you were interested in this issue. With 115 posts you probably know better than relying on what people write over here (and that of course includes me).

                            ; )
                            Usually that logic would apply, but I guess you overlooked the part of his name that says "Nexuiz Project Manager". I guess hearing things directly from the horses mouth is considered stupid nowadays.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Joe Sixpack View Post
                              Usually that logic would apply, but I guess you overlooked the part of his name that says "Nexuiz Project Manager". I guess hearing things directly from the horses mouth is considered stupid nowadays.
                              Oh, but of course I wasn't referring to SavageX posts. I thought it was pretty clear...

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Remco View Post
                                The legal right, maybe. But the moral right? Just because you can get away with being a dick does not mean it is acceptable to be a dick. Don't be a dick.

                                Many free software projects require copyright assignment. This makes legal matters much more manageable. But here you can see one of the pitfalls.
                                I don't see any thing that is morally wrong. People agreed to his terms, then as time moved on they figured it would never happen then when it happened they started crying. Projects forking off because developers having different future directions is nothing new and there is nothing immoral about it. It sounds like people are just bitter because the commercial fork sounds like it's going to be more advanced then the community effort.

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