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Valve Is Not Commenting On Steam, Source Engine For Linux

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  • #61
    @Joe Sixpack
    It is DRM because they can totally block all your games if they want to and hate your face. That is DRM. Subscription is something else. Subscription means "I get infos and such when I want to". DRM means "we are going to fuck you over... when WE want to".

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Remco View Post
      Then any subscription service involving a computer is DRM. That's true, but I think we need to separate unwanted DRM that restricts your choices from subscription services that provide additional value. It's possible to put all your Steam games in offline mode, but if you want Steam's additional services, you can get them.
      Wow, constant confusion about if Steam has DRM or not lol. If you have the *choice* not to *have* to use Steam's online services, and to simply get a game from them and keep and use it from there on out without any necessity for their services, then that is not DRM. I would definitely call any service-only game DRM-laden, since you're restricted by only being able to use it when they allow you to use their server to "complete" the game. As soon as they decide to turn off their server program, you're screwed in a bad way. With pineapples.

      So, does it or doesn't it, not including the games which are "service-only", or so they say, to justify that form of DRM? I was under the impression that you had to handshake with the server and verify your account before you were able to load and play ANY Steam game.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Joe Sixpack View Post
        2) Even if a lost of games did have DRM it still wouldn't matter. The story is about Valve porting their games to Linux. Just because you port the distribution system (steam) to Linux doesn't mean every game will work. Each game would have to be porter over by their respective company. I know this is obvious but it seems a lot of people are forgetting this.
        I don't think that people (including me) are waiting for all games to be playable under Linux. We are just waiting for a port of the Source Engine, to play many titles like HLČ, CS:S, TF2, L4D(2). Anything based on SourceEngine. And that wouldn't be a great problem, if the engine is ported, cause all these games are just Mods.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Yfrwlf View Post
          Wow, constant confusion about if Steam has DRM or not lol. If you have the *choice* not to *have* to use Steam's online services, and to simply get a game from them and keep and use it from there on out without any necessity for their services, then that is not DRM. I would definitely call any service-only game DRM-laden, since you're restricted by only being able to use it when they allow you to use their server to "complete" the game. As soon as they decide to turn off their server program, you're screwed in a bad way. With pineapples.

          So, does it or doesn't it, not including the games which are "service-only", or so they say, to justify that form of DRM? I was under the impression that you had to handshake with the server and verify your account before you were able to load and play ANY Steam game.
          Yes, at least the first time. So, if they really "don't like your face", they could screw you over at least at one opportunity. ( I guess you could sue them, then.) But after that you could keep your games offline forever. But then you don't get online features.

          Online-only games are by definition DRM-laden. If the online service provider doesn't like your face, they can always cut you off.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Dragonlord View Post
            @Joe Sixpack
            It is DRM because they can totally block all your games if they want to and hate your face. That is DRM. Subscription is something else. Subscription means "I get infos and such when I want to". DRM means "we are going to fuck you over... when WE want to".
            Technically, yes it is DRM as (deanjo) pointed out. But textbook definition doesn't always equal everyday usage. When people speak of DRM they always refer to copy protection mechanism like Crysys or The Witcher. Vavle doesn't scan your hardrive for cd cloaking apps and you aren't forced to stay online.

            So even though they're technically the same, labeling them as such creates a truckload of confusion.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by deanjo View Post
              I wouldn't hold my breath on that. A few months ago they removed all references of a linux port on their forums and recently the forums have been taken offline " indefinitely".
              Too bad, and that kind of behaviour really stinks...

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Joe Sixpack View Post
                When people speak of DRM they always refer to copy protection mechanism like Crysys or The Witcher.
                DRM and copy protection are two different things. The end goals of both techniques are the same but that is where the similarity ends.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by deanjo View Post
                  DRM and copy protection are two different things. The end goals of both techniques are the same but that is where the similarity ends.
                  In the Netherlands we like to call what we're doing here "ant fucking", but what do you suppose is the difference?

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by deanjo View Post
                    DRM and copy protection are two different things. The end goals of both techniques are the same but that is where the similarity ends.
                    You think???

                    What I said was DRM restricts you from even having disc-copying software installed. That's completely different from a copy-protected disc.

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                    • #70
                      Copy protection and DRM are two different pairs of shoes. Copy protection is about preventing "duplication" of a game. DRM is about preventing "use" of the game (which is the major problem here).

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Joe Sixpack View Post
                        You think???

                        What I said was DRM restricts you from even having disc-copying software installed.
                        That's completely different from a copy-protected disc.
                        Blocking use of items such as virtual drives is a form of copy protection. DRM uses "authorization" from a party outside of your system to allow the program to function. It must "bless" your install.

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                        • #72
                          So, when did Securom turn from copy protection to DRM? Is there a clear line to be drawn? I think it's just a continuation. Old school copy protection is a subset of the concept of DRM. And, as I said: we're well into ant violation territory.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by deanjo View Post
                            Blocking use of items such as virtual drives is a form of copy protection. DRM uses "authorization" from a party outside of your system to allow the program to function. It must "bless" your install.
                            DRM is a generic term - it isn't nearly as specific as you are trying to define it. It's implemented in different ways because of different types of media (movies, music, and games). Explain to me how copy protection isn't a form of "Digital Rights Management".

                            @Remco

                            SecuROM is the poster child for DRM - copy protection is the least of your problems. It didn't come with an uninstaller originally, it required you to activate your game online and limited your activations to one machine (BioShock), and it can require you to activate your game every 10 days (Mass Effect). I agree though, it's all just a continuation and the only difference is perception.

                            (For the record I own both games.)

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Joe Sixpack View Post
                              DRM is a generic term - it isn't nearly as specific as you are trying to define it. It's implemented in different ways because of different types of media (movies, music, and games). Explain to me how copy protection isn't a form of "Digital Rights Management".
                              DRM on movies music and games use the same idea. They "phone home" outside of your local system to get authorized for playback or execution on said device. A DRM'd piece media cannot self authorize itself for use on that device. Copy protection prohibits duplication of the media. DRM does not do that. A DRM'd piece of media can be freely duplicated but until the device is authorized for use with said media. There are many cases, especially in software, where both are in use.

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by FireBurn View Post
                                I do like having pretty box sets (whether it's games, books, DVDs or blurays) but for ease of use having a file on your PC is often easier

                                My legal British copy of the Final Destination in 3D won't work on my American PS3. There's no bluray player for linux so I booted into Windows on a separate drive to watch it. Unfortunately it won't play because of a problem with HDCP - it asks me to connect up via VGA rather than HDMI because of it. I very nearly downloaded it from Pirate Bay.

                                I don't think the dodgy downloads have subtitles for the hard of hearing though, which was a must as one of my friends is deaf. We ended up watching Total Recall instead.

                                I think I've just gone off topic
                                This kind of issue has made it easier to be a pirate than to be a good customer.



                                And I don't want to have the same kind of problem with steam. Esp if they just randomly remove things like people are saying.

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