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  • #31
    Originally posted by Dragonlord View Post
    Great... so FOSS stuff gets only mentioned if the makers sneak into the ass of the phoronix writers? Now that I call "free journalism" :/ ...
    I do believe that they asked them if Michael wanted to include it in the performance benchmarks. Have you thought about doing the same?

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    • #32
      Originally posted by WhiteRabbit View Post
      Design students(who I know quite a good few of) tend to prefer the proprietary software such as 3ds and other design tools compared to things like blender... Many of them actually know what blender is as a lot of them have started on it before coming to college and getting access to the "better" tools... I have even talked to some of the design students about linux and a good amount have heard of it, but they LOVE their mamingac's...
      oh hell yea. students are typically tied into a proprietary tool, mostly max for modeling and maya for animations. Lest we forget Photoshop. Is a FOSS game truly FOSS when you are using proprietary software to make it?

      @curaga: its not rocket science how to get in touch with artists. Ironically both camps have opposing problems and it all comes down to networking (in the social sense). They have no programmers to do the mods, and the programmers have no artists to make the foss games. You think this would be easy to fix but apparently its not.

      if the art pipe is ever going to be linked to the FOSS pipe, sacrifices need to be made. The FOSS camp needs accept that the artists are going to use windows or mac. The artists need to come to grips that their art may be subject to creative commons licencing or similar. These are not very difficult sacrifices. A leadership also needs to be put in place as well, Regardless of how obvious it appears that everyone can work in harmony.

      @vincent: when people say "HD" i look over at my sega genesis 1 which says "High Definition Graphics" .
      @elanthis: Holy Moly, thats one hell of a post.

      Alot more to say, but my pizza is done .

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      • #33
        Originally posted by L33F3R View Post
        oh hell yea. students are typically tied into a proprietary tool, mostly max for modeling and maya for animations. Lest we forget Photoshop. Is a FOSS game truly FOSS when you are using proprietary software to make it?
        Good question. I asked something like that when Big Buck Bunny came out as some of the tools used were closed source apps.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by deanjo View Post
          Good question. I asked something like that when Big Buck Bunny came out as some of the tools used were closed source apps.
          I occasionally follow the Blender community and the open movie projects (like Big Buck Bunny), and I have seen this question pop up. They're willing to work with other open-source tools, but their need to finish on a deadline usually trumps trying to use all open-source tools. Any project that they would work with would need to already meet their needs, or have a team that would work alongside the Blender folk and add any features/fix any bugs that are slowing down the team.
          The Krita folks (The painting app from KOffice) solicited feedback from the Blender team, and are currently working on improving the software so that the next version would meet the artists requirements.
          Take a look at http://wiki.koffice.org/index.php?ti...ita/ActionPlan
          and
          http://wiki.koffice.org/index.php?title=Krita/Roadmap22

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          • #35
            I doubt anyone would care much. Before the advent of Inkscape and similar apps, most icons in GNOME (and everywhere else I guess) where drawn using Adobe Illustrator.

            Non-proprietary file formats for the source would certainly be prefered, but I doubt anyone would turn down contributors because of that.

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            • #36
              i suppose noone would care so long as the formats where 100% compatible with FLOSS programs.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by dashcloud View Post
                I occasionally follow the Blender community and the open movie projects (like Big Buck Bunny), and I have seen this question pop up. They're willing to work with other open-source tools, but their need to finish on a deadline usually trumps trying to use all open-source tools. Any project that they would work with would need to already meet their needs, or have a team that would work alongside the Blender folk and add any features/fix any bugs that are slowing down the team.
                The Krita folks (The painting app from KOffice) solicited feedback from the Blender team, and are currently working on improving the software so that the next version would meet the artists requirements.
                Take a look at http://wiki.koffice.org/index.php?ti...ita/ActionPlan
                and
                http://wiki.koffice.org/index.php?title=Krita/Roadmap22
                There is still the audio side of things that they have to worry about. As far as I know that was almost entirely done with closed source apps.

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                • #38
                  Jan's studio link, as you can see nothing much free there.

                  http://www.wavemage.com/studio-en.html

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                  • #39
                    If the artists and programmers can't even manage to get together, how hard is it for them to get someone competent from the design end of things? Think about this:
                    "What's you're role"
                    "Game designer"
                    "Can you program?"
                    "Nope."
                    "Can you make assets"
                    "Nothing amazing"
                    "Then what's the point?"
                    Programmer goes off and makes awful clone game, potentially with decent-looking models and textures.

                    And it's not like a designer can really come along later. People don't take kindly to relative strangers taking the liberty to redesign the whole experience of a project, creating new requirements, new work, more bugs, etc.
                    "This isn't bad, but lacks punch. We should change this like this to give the player better agency in this situation"
                    "Who the hell are you and why are you ruining my game?"

                    And don't even get started on OSS programmers' ability to handle direction as given by a director. I just don't see that happening for a long time.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by elanthis View Post
                      One of the problems with these projects is that the Open Source developers think that if they create some awesome tech that an awesome game will spring up around it. That isn't how it works. Yes, you can take a generic engine and build a great game on it, but that only happens when you already have a great game in the works and are shopping for an engine that meets the game design's needs. The game design, the story, the art, and the technology are all one. No single portion of the whole can be developed in isolation and then work without massive modifications. This is why even the commercial engines give source code to their licensees; those "Unreal-based games" you see aren't just a bunch of maps and scripts on top of a stock Unreal3 engine. Not even remotely. They have massive internal changes to the engine to make it suited for the actual game being made. Open Source engines can be used like that just the same, of course, but the difference here is that the people with the tech savvy to make those changes end up working on a big generic all-purpose moddable engine instead of working with a pro designer and art team and making an actual game.
                      OK...

                      So...

                      'We' should stop making games out of engines, but make a game, take an engine and make an engine out of a game?

                      First we need scrap everything. Throw it in the trashcan.

                      Then we need to think only about gameplay mechanics. Think of new interesting gameplay and make it with python in Blender (which has a game engine and all the bells and whistles to prototype).

                      Once we have created this fun and new gameplay we need to start dressing up the idea with cencept art and pherhaps write a story around it (some motivation to play).

                      Then we need to take a look at what engines are out there, get one closest to being capable of having the power to deliver graphics for the concept art and making the gameplay work. Then the engine itself needs to be modded in nessecary to make the gameplay work with it.

                      Then enter the crunch period, where game designers will dress it up. In other words: create the content.

                      That makes a lot more sence...

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Wyatt View Post
                        If the artists and programmers can't even manage to get together, how hard is it for them to get someone competent from the design end of things?
                        you definitely need to fill the design and leadership shoes at the get go, or it will be an absolute quagmire.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by L33F3R View Post
                          you definitely need to fill the design and leadership shoes at the get go, or it will be an absolute quagmire.
                          Right. But from the standpoint of an open project, how do you do that? Unless you have polymath programmers or artists that can pull those roles as well, you would need someone to help coordinate. And you have to convince everyone that it's necessary. That's what I'm getting at.

                          If you don't have someone who can do design/direction/production, how do you get a team together for something with any amount of meat?

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Wyatt View Post
                            Right. But from the standpoint of an open project, how do you do that? Unless you have polymath programmers or artists that can pull those roles as well, you would need someone to help coordinate. And you have to convince everyone that it's necessary. That's what I'm getting at.

                            If you don't have someone who can do design/direction/production, how do you get a team together for something with any amount of meat?
                            your absolutely right . I fear that I cannot answer that question as i simply dont know.

                            Devs need to put their feet behind said designer at the get go, which is hard in a world where we all like to be our own boss. As the FOSS game designer you also need to know where to find dev's, because they wont find you.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
                              I do believe that they asked them if Michael wanted to include it in the performance benchmarks. Have you thought about doing the same?
                              Nope, because that's not the way it should be. Stuff should be included in the benchmark suit because it fits in and helps stress test something the other existing benchmarks can not cover not because somebody wants to get coverage. After all this benchmark suit is for benchmarking not a PR showcase, right?

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Dragonlord View Post
                                Nope, because that's not the way it should be. Stuff should be included in the benchmark suit because it fits in and helps stress test something the other existing benchmarks can not cover not because somebody wants to get coverage. After all this benchmark suit is for benchmarking not a PR showcase, right?
                                Well the first thing I would do Dragonlord is to request Michael to change your "Senior Member" status to something that at least reflected your project. Second thing would to be at least put together a technology demo that shows off what sets your project apart from the rest.

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