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Good News, id Tech 5 Is Likely Coming To Linux

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Naib View Post
    I agree it is good, but please read my post again (and Ireally think Apopas should after his rude reply)

    I was posting w.r.t. Mainstream games. Take Batman Arkam Asylum, that game looks great. 5% of QL players being linux users out of... what? 1000QL players isn't that significant really

    for specialist of indie games it is a nice number for them to concider investing in linux dev because it will more then likely show some financial return.

    But for the big games they are not even going to blink, iD are an exception to this and it almost looked like they were going to follow the financial incentive route
    I apologise if I was rude. It was not my purpose.
    Now about numbers. It is estimated that the amount of Linux players for Quake3Arena was about 20,000 and that was almost ten years before when the Linux market was much smaller than today So if we say that a new AAA title realeased simultaneously for Linux and windows and sold lets say 500,000 copies, then 25,000 are sold to Linux users. So lets say 50$ per box, we have 1,250,000$. Do you find this number insignificant? Not at all if we consider that to port the game needs much much less money than this. And again, the cost for advertising an AAA title for Linux is much smaller in compariosn with the windows equivalent. Actually, it doesn't need advertising at all. It's enough to just say we will port this AA game to Linux and the Linux magazines, forums and sites will be on fire for free.
    Also, don't forget that there is a significant part of window's users (maybe the majority) that do not care about computers and use windows because they just found PCs with them inside and the only they do with their computers is some casual jobs. Also, another part are the ones that need some proffesional application for their job etc. All these reduce the windows population who like to play games from 90% to the half. On the other hand the Linux users who choose Linux as their desktops are people who know few things about computers. But to know few things you have to love computer even a bit and for people like them, gaming is easier. Because of that we see that games sell 5%+ in Linux while Linux has lesser market share.
    Last edited by Apopas; 09-19-2009, 08:00 PM.

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    • #62
      Well you should not forget one thing: writeing cross plattform games gives usually much better code as you have to fix issues which one compiler silently ignores but others will fail. ID does not only create one game, they sell the engine to others, so the code should be in really good shape. Do you remember the iPhone ports of older ID games? ID could even reuse the optimized code from the community and earn money with those games again.
      Last edited by Kano; 09-19-2009, 08:34 PM.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Naib View Post
        I agree it is good, but please read my post again (and Ireally think Apopas should after his rude reply)

        I was posting w.r.t. Mainstream games. Take Batman Arkam Asylum, that game looks great. 5% of QL players being linux users out of... what? 1000QL players isn't that significant really

        for specialist of indie games it is a nice number for them to concider investing in linux dev because it will more then likely show some financial return.

        But for the big games they are not even going to blink, iD are an exception to this and it almost looked like they were going to follow the financial incentive route
        You're right. And for new games like Arkham Asylum, the game would really be limited to Nvidia users only. I suspect Nvidia users make up a huge majority of Linux gamers though.

        But I'm using the open source radeon driver, so it works with games like Quake Live, but doesn't have a chance of even playing Rage at this point.

        Once the mesa drivers catch up to Nvidia then that should increase the amount of users who can play new games.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by pvtcupcakes View Post
          Once the mesa drivers catch up to Nvidia then that should increase the amount of users who can play new games.
          I do believe that is the main reason John Carmack said what he said. It's still a big "if" for compelling 3D support capable of supporting Rage on Linux for the next 6 or so months. If Gallium arrives in time, they can revisit- but betting everything on NVidia's not a good idea for them and they can't sell the guys with the purse strings on the idea directly. It's going to be on TTimo's extra time that we get it- for now, at least.

          Now...if Larrabee shows up strong and/or Gallium3D arrives fully in time... That's a different kettle of fish, I'm suspecting.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
            I do believe that is the main reason John Carmack said what he said. It's still a big "if" for compelling 3D support capable of supporting Rage on Linux for the next 6 or so months. If Gallium arrives in time, they can revisit- but betting everything on NVidia's not a good idea for them and they can't sell the guys with the purse strings on the idea directly. It's going to be on TTimo's extra time that we get it- for now, at least.

            Now...if Larrabee shows up strong and/or Gallium3D arrives fully in time... That's a different kettle of fish, I'm suspecting.
            I hope Gallium3D to be as good as people want to believe, finally.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Apopas View Post
              I hope Gallium3D to be as good as people want to believe, finally.
              As best as I can tell, it's being designed right and the framework's overall sound- it's just that something this complex (and it is...) takes a bit of time to fully implement.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by whizse View Post
                You are very confused. iD owns the copyright to the game and can do as they wish with it. Quake Live is not licensed under the GPL.
                *SIGH* *Bonks head against keyboard*

                Quake live... Browser version of Quake 3?
                Quake 3... GPL?
                Quake live... not GPL but why don't make it GPL?
                Quake live... do not pay for artwork?
                Quake 3... pay for artwork but why do that when you can play Quake Live for free?

                Get the point? Why not make Quake Live also GPL if they do not earn money? Why not release artwork under CC license?

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                • #68
                  AFAIK iD has never released any artwork for their games, only code.

                  As for Quake Live going GPL I guess it's just not worth the effort, releasing the source isn't as easy as packing up a tgz archive and dumping it on a public FTP.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
                    Get the point? Why not make Quake Live also GPL if they do not earn money?
                    Why do you feel you are entitled to a GPL game just because the game is free beer? ID opensources its stuff as a gesture of kindness, not because you deserve it.

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                    • #70
                      The "free to play" point is a bit dubious too, Quake Live is showing ads as you play doesn't it? (I have almost zero interest in QL myself) So it probably wouldn't be in their best interest if you could basically fork the game and make a version without ads?

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by L33F3R View Post
                        Why do you feel you are entitled to a GPL game just because the game is free beer? ID opensources its stuff as a gesture of kindness, not because you deserve it.
                        Yeah, although I think Carmack's ego plays a role here too. He's good, and he knows it. Releasing the source means others can learn from (or admire) him

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                        • #72
                          Carmack's god-ness derives from his skill in engine writing and (in this case) the Q3 core engine. This has already been released.

                          What good would Q3L do released under the GPL?

                          It won't advance thew community's store of knowledge of the game engine and it is not as though it is difficult or an unknown skill to write a browser plugin to launch a process outside of the browser sandbox or upload status/scores to a central server.

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                          • #73
                            Not just that, J.C. was funded Mesa developers and give driver optimization instructions for Q3:

                            May 13, 1999

                            May 1999 - John Carmack of id Software, Inc. has made a donation of
                            US$10,000 to the Mesa project to support its continuing development.
                            Mesa is a free implementation of the OpenGL 3D graphics library and id's
                            newest game, Quake 3 Arena, will use Mesa as the 3D renderer on Linux.

                            The donation will go to Keith Whitwell, who has been optimizing Mesa to
                            improve performance on 3d hardware. Thanks to Keith's work, many
                            applications using Mesa 3.1 will see a dramatic performance increase
                            over Mesa 3.0. The donation will allow Keith to continue working on
                            Mesa full time for some time to come.

                            For more information about Mesa see www.mesa3d.org. For more
                            information about id Software, Inc. see www.idsoftware.com.

                            --------------------------------

                            This donation from John/id is very generous. Keith and I are very
                            grateful.
                            May 1, 1999

                            John Carmack made an interesting .plan update yesterday:

                            "I put together a document on optimizing OpenGL drivers for Q3 that should be helpful to the various Linux 3D teams.
                            http://www.quake3arena.com/news/glopt.html"
                            But Yeah, 10 years ago! Nearly after that nvidia stolen some ideas, but give full source:

                            June 2, 1999

                            nVidia has released some Linux binaries for xfree86 3.3.3.1, along with the full source, which includes GLX acceleration based on Mesa 3.0. They can be downloaded from http://www.nvidia.com/Products.nsf/h...e_drivers.html.

                            June 7, 1999

                            RPMS of the nVidia RIVA server can be found at ftp://ftp.mesa3d.org/mesa/misc/nVidia/.
                            Today nvidia blob is only one optimizated blob on earth who can run at acceptible performance another blob. (methinks - Rage The Game).
                            Last edited by dungeon; 09-22-2009, 11:53 AM.

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                            • #74
                              Yeah, he was also involved with the Utah-GLX project at some point.

                              id Software are also members of the Khronos Group, so id/Carmack are big supporters of OpenGL in general.

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                              • #75
                                Yeah, and then just to give one example who is big supporter of Direct3D:

                                ATI Tesselation Technology was published in 2001 via GL_ATI_pn_triangles extension:

                                http://www.opengl.org/registry/specs..._triangles.txt

                                and then few years later they removed it from their blobs, because of performance reason

                                Today they announced this old technology AS shiny new for DX 11 only.

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