Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The OpenArena topic

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • The OpenArena topic

    Why does it suck?


    I'd like to solve this bug. I know this bug exists, but I can't seem to reproduce it myself.

    Be brutally honest. The reason why i'm asking here, and not my board is for less pro/competitive-gaming bias, and more on the casual enthusiast view.

    OpenArena's existence is intended to fill the GPL data gap for the GPL Q3 source like FreeDOOM and OpenQuartz do for Doom and Quake sources respectively. It doesn't exist for being just another FPS game out there, though that is an intended side-effect.

    No Free Q2 data project exists and I am not interested in making one due to the poor MD2 export pipelines.

    Thanks!
    Last edited by leilei; 07-10-2009, 07:43 AM.

  • #2
    One thing is that the Bloom option defaults to on, causing less-than-1-fps with the free radeon drivers. Gives a badly coded impression if one doesn't know to turn that off.
    Yeah, a driver bug really, but manifests with OA.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by curaga View Post
      One thing is that the Bloom option defaults to on, causing less-than-1-fps with the free radeon drivers. Gives a badly coded impression if one doesn't know to turn that off.
      Yeah, a driver bug really, but manifests with OA.
      That's true, but the most annoying thing (which OA devs claim it's not their fault) is shooting latency. I tried ioQuake3 engine and everything is fine, so problem is in OA...
      Last edited by kraftman; 07-10-2009, 10:01 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        The download size is a bit big. Just by optimizing all PNG and JPEG images, losslessly, about 30mb came off. Advzip on the zip after that takes about 4mb more. Converting all sounds to vorbis would drop nearly 50mb.

        edit: IIRC that image-optimization phase also included converting all possible tiffs to png.
        Last edited by curaga; 07-10-2009, 02:32 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          In my opinion, it doesnt suck that much. From a casual view, for me, coming from playing quake3 casually too, the execution of the game playing exp is not so good. Sounds like the weapon/item pickup sound weak, like a noise a toy would make. Some weapons just look not good, like the lighting and the rail guns. The lightning gun doesnt look like one, doesnt seem that much like a gun to me, and the railgun i didnt know it was a railgun from the firing sound it makes. I thought railguns were supposed to make this quick load high pitched noise when firing the rail. The shotgun doesnt have much of a reloading animation, i know the original q3 shotgun didnt either, but it looked more shinier. :P I remember playing with the old OA machinegun, and the current one looks much much better. Better than the original q3a machinegun probably.

          Im not much of a coder so i can't comment on technical aspects of it. It'd be cool to have some sort of newbie friendly group of .bat files which the player can run and enable for them all the eyecandy effects.
          Are you using the latest revision of ioquake3?

          Comment


          • #6
            its better then anything i could have done. My brain restricts me to basic hello world type programs. Or is that the narcotics?

            OA is an old title. It was made to bring a free quake3 type game using the q3 source code.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by L33F3R View Post
              its better then anything i could have done. My brain restricts me to basic hello world type programs. Or is that the narcotics?

              OA is an old title. It was made to bring a free quake3 type game using the q3 source code.
              Well, you know, OA is mostly about artwork/graphics/sounds/etc. Most if not all of the code is still q3a or ioq3.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by curaga View Post
                One thing is that the Bloom option defaults to on, causing less-than-1-fps with the free radeon drivers. Gives a badly coded impression if one doesn't know to turn that off.
                Yeah, a driver bug really, but manifests with OA.
                I thought it was default off? I know bloom also kills performance of any PowerVR based hardware too.

                Originally posted by kraftman View Post
                That's true, but the most annoying thing (which OA devs claim it's not their fault) is shooting latency. I tried ioQuake3 engine and everything is fine, so problem is in OA...
                Have you checked 'unlagged hitscan' in the options?

                Originally posted by curaga View Post
                The download size is a bit big. Just by optimizing all PNG and JPEG images, losslessly, about 30mb came off. Advzip on the zip after that takes about 4mb more. Converting all sounds to vorbis would drop nearly 50mb.

                edit: IIRC that image-optimization phase also included converting all possible tiffs to png.
                Do you have a script for that? And are your alpha channels perfectly intact?I originally hesitated to use PNG due to decoding time and incompatibility with vanilla Q3 sources. I remember arguments over the lack of benefit of compressing/loading a PNG in a zip vs a TGA too. :S and Imagemagick broke the alphas and the pixels that use alphas when I tried that also.

                I do run zipdistiller to take the zip's size down. I have to use infozip to initially pack it since 7zip gave me a mysterious player model selection bug (no icons showing up)

                The sounds aren't Vorbis since there's a bug in the playback code for OGG sounds at the time, which would cut off the sound just 78% through or so. Not good for announcers. ("You have lost the lee")


                Originally posted by xav1r View Post
                In my opinion, it doesnt suck that much. From a casual view, for me, coming from playing quake3 casually too, the execution of the game playing exp is not so good.
                I am missing a complete intro video and RoQs to bridge any suddenness like Quake3 though.. maybe that puts the game a bit at fault. I also need to drop this red/black default scheme for the menus. It's very qliche.

                Originally posted by xav1r View Post
                Sounds like the weapon/item pickup sound weak, like a noise a toy would make.
                I'm trying to de-hollow the feel of the noises myself too. There's new noises in trial, but so far negative reception is something I constantly get when I change something that they're used to. (Especially the gauntlet sound, which i've ultimately started using despite the anti-demand)

                Originally posted by xav1r View Post
                In my opinion, it doesnt suck that much. From a casual view, for me, coming from playing quake3 casually too, the execution of the game playing exp is not so good. Sounds like the weapon/item pickup sound weak, like a noise a toy would make. Some weapons just look not good, like the lighting and the rail guns. The lightning gun doesnt look like one, doesnt seem that much like a gun to me,
                The lightning gun was an early 2005 design that was never changed. It was going to be even lamer, like a tesla ball on a rod, but this unreal1-ish design was used instead. Could use a better skin though.

                Originally posted by xav1r View Post
                and the railgun i didnt know it was a railgun from the firing sound it makes. I thought railguns were supposed to make this quick load high pitched noise when firing the rail.
                A big huge short barrel with tubes almost equals 'railgun' to me. Did you play Quake2? :O

                Originally posted by xav1r View Post
                The shotgun doesnt have much of a reloading animation, i know the original q3 shotgun didnt either, but it looked more shinier. :P
                The way Q3 handles animation by default is on the player model frames, I only get 8 frames of animation to play with for the weapon. That includes the draw/holster animations.

                Originally posted by xav1r View Post
                I remember playing with the old OA machinegun, and the current one looks much much better. Better than the original q3a machinegun probably.
                Good, because I desperately am trying for less derivative designs.

                Originally posted by xav1r View Post
                Im not much of a coder so i can't comment on technical aspects of it. It'd be cool to have some sort of newbie friendly group of .bat files which the player can run and enable for them all the eyecandy effects.
                Talk of .bat files on a linux forum!? :O
                a .cfg file for 'absolute maximum' would suffice probably. There's 16x anisotropy filter and extreme inverse of lodbias the menu can't cover.

                Originally posted by xav1r View Post
                Are you using the latest revision of ioquake3?
                The latest revision would dump OpenAL, which is a feature I like and do not want to lose (for positional 48khz audio).

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by xav1r View Post
                  Well, you know, OA is mostly about artwork/graphics/sounds/etc. Most if not all of the code is still q3a or ioq3.
                  i was going to say that, but i feared insulting the programming base. If i myself was a programmer I wouldn't hesitate but sense im not, I dont have the experience to back up such claims.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Do you have a script for that? And are your alpha channels perfectly intact?
                    for i in `find -name "*.png"`;do
                    pngcrush -brute -rem gAMA -rem cHRM -rem sRGB -rem iCCP $i ${i}.tmp
                    mv ${i}.tmp $i
                    advdef -z4 $i
                    done

                    for i in `find -name "*.jpeg"`;do
                    jpegtran -optimize $i > ${i}.tmp
                    mv ${i}.tmp $i
                    done
                    It's been a long while since I did that, but IIRC alpha survived ok in tiff -> png. It could only be done for those tiffs interpreted by the engine, since those needed by models don't have the fallback logic.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      @Leilei

                      Have you checked 'unlagged hitscan' in the options?
                      Nope, but if this helps why it's not enabled?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Why does it suck?

                        I'd like to solve this bug. I know this bug exists, but I can't seem to reproduce it myself.

                        Be brutally honest. The reason why i'm asking here, and not my board is for less pro/competitive-gaming bias, and more on the casual enthusiast view.
                        Good. I like to be brutally honest.

                        It's not down to minor details like some rubbish sounds or a couple of models out of place. We players can live with that sort of low quality stuff as long as the game is fun to play.


                        1) Very limited contributions.

                        The goals of OA in terms of being made out of 100% free assets are great and they surely are appreciated amongst many of us. However, YOU failed at conveying the reasons why these are desirable and noble goals. YOU managed to piss too many people off---and people with the best intentions who just wanted to contribute to the project. It is hard to find people (and even more so skilled people) willing to spend their time to improve a project like this, and yet many showed up in 'your board' only to be completely ignored or answered in a rude way. There is no justification for this. If tact is not your strong point, delegate some responsibility on those who may have a clearer sense of how to deal properly with humans. Actually, you wouldn't even need to do that if you just left some general guidelines about where the project is going to, about how to contribute, and what criteria to follow for those contributions to be accepted.

                        I remember the textures issue some good months ago. A perfect example of how not to deal with a problem. As usual, after a period of silence decision arrives from above and everything is scrapped. If dealt with otherwise, the net result would probably be the same (non free textures are non free textures no matter how much we chat about it) but perhaps some people would not have left and everybody could learn from past mistakes. There are more examples like this; a special mention deserve the many threads where it was asked how to contribute music to the project.

                        2) Extremely low quality checking.

                        Let's be fair, it is non existent. Otherwise you explain me how is it possible that one version of the game can ship with missing sounds or outstanding bugs like players getting stuck in the middle of a match. This sort of problems would be easily solved if you had built a nice community/environment where players would be more willing to test beforehand and give useful feedback.

                        But it's not just bugs. Bugs are understandable. One of the main problems is the quality of maps, which is where players actually expend their time. Your anti-competitive stand is well known (and quite negative, by the way); however, when most experienced players think that this or that map suck, there possibly is some truth to it. In plain terms: a good chunk (most?) of the OA levels are an insult to players. This is not your fault, though, at least directly; but again, had you managed to surround the project with a more positive atmosphere (*) your mappers would be more likely to get feedback from experienced, interested players.


                        If you want specific ideas from people who actually PLAY the game (and even create some content), you know where to find them. Maybe it's not too late.

                        (*) No, indiscriminate banning is not the best way to achieve that.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Too bad this thread isn't about me. It's about the OpenArena project, not my sole judgment on weeding out the forum trash on my forum. My strictness of what goes in is what keeps the project Free. FUDing over troublemakers banned in an obvious zero-tolerance drama policy is just pointless.

                          Originally posted by L33F3R View Post
                          i was going to say that, but i feared insulting the programming base. If i myself was a programmer I wouldn't hesitate but sense im not, I dont have the experience to back up such claims.
                          You could say that but you would be overlooking the new implmementations of new game types (like Domination and) that are often overlooked!
                          Last edited by leilei; 07-12-2009, 11:19 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            1 thing that caught my eye is the mapping situation. The maps are in fact garbage. Some of them are of decent quality I will admit but the vast majority are in a sorry state.

                            I put an offer on the table to assist in the creation of new content.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by L33F3R View Post
                              1 thing that caught my eye is the mapping situation. The maps are in fact garbage. Some of them are of decent quality I will admit but the vast majority are in a sorry state.

                              I put an offer on the table to assist in the creation of new content.
                              I second that notion. The map quality is lacking in lots of instances. They need more experimenting and beta-testing for maneuvres during DMing.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X