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Wishlist for Porting Projects (Pt. 2)

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  • Originally posted by Apopas View Post
    I'm asking coz Loki has UT in its products.

    So it is .. I had no recollection that it was them. Such a long time ago, and I have difficulty remembering last week.

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    • Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
      Diablo doesn't really work well. (But Diablo II does... My only WINE game right at the moment...)
      doesn't that make you a hypocrite? The guy who advocates against the use of wine is the same guy using it. Thats like telling ur children not to do drugs and then you go in the garage and cut lines.

      thats cold man

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      • Originally posted by djack View Post
        If your customers are already running the game under Wine, what commercial reason is there to put in the time and expense of a Linux port?

        ...

        why bother with a port if those same people would just buy the Windows version instead?
        There seems to be very little incentive to port existing games. However, one of these days an industry player is going to release a AAA title with Ubuntu support on the same level as Windows support, from day one. And they're going to clean up.

        If you're a Linux games player and you've got a choice between buying a AAA title that'll only play in WINE and a AAA title that plays natively, which are you going to buy? If you're the managing director of an industry player, would you want the company selling the multi-platform game to be you, or your competitor? There will come a point in the future when the big houses find they have a choice to make: support Linux or lose out.

        This goes back to collecting WINE stats, which would be a great idea. I wonder if Valve haven't already been doing this what with the native-Linux reverberations around Steam recently. It might well be that Valve are the company to clean up.

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        • Originally posted by L33F3R View Post
          doesn't that make you a hypocrite? The guy who advocates against the use of wine is the same guy using it. Thats like telling ur children not to do drugs and then you go in the garage and cut lines.

          thats cold man
          Excuse me...

          1) If you can't compare what you're doing with your "competition"...
          2) I didn't BUY the game with the intent of playing it on WINE. It was a damned gift from my brother back when the game came out (Do the math on the release dates, L33F3R...)
          3) It's been quite a while since I've played it at all. It's sitting on my HD, unused. I've been playing things like Sacred, Uplink, Prey, Caster... You get the idea.
          4) In comparison, it doesn't work as desired- it's a make-do that I admit to so that there's little question that I've tried it.


          The only thing cold here is the person making drug analogies and calling the other person "cold" without knowing the whole story. By the by, I don't tell them not to- I tell them that it's not the answer, which it isn't.

          It doesn't help you get Linux gaming if you're playing something like WoW on it. It doesn't help you if you're playing Crysis on it. If you've got an old game like Diablo II that isn't at all likely to be ported, ever, it's an "okay" thing. (If it gets people onto Linux by providing a way to play select things, it's serving it's real purpose. If you're using it to play new stuff, you have to ask yourself which is more important... Something I've already done. I don't DO WINE for that stuff. If it's not being evaled for porting, it's not on a machine at all, WINE or VirtualBox XP. If it's not Linux and it's not on Wii or PS3, it doesn't get bought by myself or others on my behalf- period.)

          That's ALL I've EVER said. If you want to read more into it, that's fine- just please don't be putting words into my mouth.
          Last edited by Svartalf; 06-05-2009, 05:02 PM.

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          • Originally posted by rah_ View Post
            This goes back to collecting WINE stats, which would be a great idea. I wonder if Valve haven't already been doing this what with the native-Linux reverberations around Steam recently. It might well be that Valve are the company to clean up.
            That will only work if you have accurate stats that show they're leaving 25% or more of the potential market lying on the floor.

            By the way, we DID have a AAA title that was effectively simultaneously released. It was delayed for Linux a couple of weeks because of a problem with customs on the packaging that was ordered for the first batch of the things. People didn't wait and bought the Windows version, which counted as a WINDOWS sale, and then "converted" it to Linux use- which didn't count for a Linux version. The only Linux sales for this AAA title counted in the low hundreds.

            What you say isn't going to happen the way you think it will. And WINE stats won't budge things any more than the figures we bandy about (which are on the low side in my opinion, but...).

            Comment


            • Originally posted by djack View Post
              The Linux clients for UT were all paid for by Epic. Orignal UT client came out quite a while after the game. Clients for 2003/2004 were on the same disk as the Windows client.
              In reality, Loki ended up with the support contract for Linux on UT99 at one point. (I could be wrong, but that might have been the start of Epic's relationship with Ryan on Ureal Tech engine porting... )

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              • Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
                That will only work if you have accurate stats that show they're leaving 25% or more of the potential market lying on the floor.
                You don't think that day will come?


                Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
                By the way, we DID have a AAA title that was effectively simultaneously released. It was delayed for Linux a couple of weeks
                This is contradictory. Either the Linux version was delayed or released simultaneously. In this instance, it was delayed. By qualifying "simultaneously" with the word "effectively", what you're actually saying is "it wasn't released simultaneously." Which is correct; it was delayed :-)

                The issue isn't which day the publisher sends boxes out to retailers. The issue is which day gamers are able to buy them.


                Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
                What you say isn't going to happen the way you think it will.
                In what way do you think it will happen?


                Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
                And WINE stats won't budge things any more than the figures we bandy about (which are on the low side in my opinion, but...).
                I think WINE stats would influence things.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Nexus6 View Post
                  By the way, does anyone have any ideas on recovering data from unreadable CDs. My original Descent/Descent2 CDs no longer mount...
                  Sorry, I don't know much about CD data recovery.

                  However, Good Old Games does offer a Descent 1 &2 direct download for $5.99.

                  http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/descent_1_descent_2

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by rah_ View Post
                    You don't think that day will come?
                    Not in a manner you're alluding to. If it were, it would have happened already. I've been working at trying to make it happen for the last decade now.

                    This is contradictory. Either the Linux version was delayed or released simultaneously. In this instance, it was delayed. By qualifying "simultaneously" with the word "effectively", what you're actually saying is "it wasn't released simultaneously." Which is correct; it was delayed :-)
                    Consider this. The code was ready at the same time. More to the point, you've HAD this same situation with more than just Quake3:Arena. You had it with UT2k3/UT2k4. We didn't have the nirvana of Linux gaming happen then either. More to the point, they've snubbed us on the latest in the series as best as we can tell.

                    It's going to take a much larger apparent userbase to generate the circumstance you talk to. 2-4 years off yet to come.

                    The issue isn't which day the publisher sends boxes out to retailers. The issue is which day gamers are able to buy them.
                    Then explain UT2k3 or UT2k4... The market then was as hungry for Linux titles. No magic then. Oh, but we have more gamers now than then, eh? The honest truth of the matter is that most gamers are still buying Windows titles, whether they're using Windows or not.


                    In what way do you think it will happen?
                    If it happens as you describe, it'll be a couple more years yet to come. I think it will really happen from a different direction than you're thinking. There's this little groundswell in the mobile device market. Linux is shaping up to be the preferred platform. Games on mobile phones, etc. It's from there that the whole thing will really start.

                    I think WINE stats would influence things.
                    If that were the case, they would have already done so.
                    Last edited by Svartalf; 06-06-2009, 01:10 AM.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
                      It's going to take a much larger apparent userbase to generate the circumstance you talk to. 2-4 years off yet to come.
                      I said in my post, "a point in the future ". 2-4 years off is in the future.


                      Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
                      If that were the case, they would have already done so.
                      How do you know WINE stats haven't already done so?

                      Comment


                      • I've just read few posts back and when you all arqued about games from former loki studio, I thought you were talking about Loki the game (http://www.loki-game.com/en/). It took me a while that, loki!=loki so maybe loki (the game) would be possible to port ?
                        It's a D2 clone with quite nice graphics. I think h'n's/rpg is what linux gamers lack ;-)

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                        • Originally posted by rah_ View Post
                          I said in my post, "a point in the future ". 2-4 years off is in the future.




                          How do you know WINE stats haven't already done so?
                          considering the fact that i've seen a couple different game developers respond to the question of supporting linux with "well i've heard it works ok on wine"

                          i don't think wine is going to be a big barganing chip.

                          a person using wine is still a person play thier game - thats in thier sold column already, just like it would be for linux native games. only with wine they don't have to do any work for it.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
                            If that were the case, they would have already done so.
                            I don't think so. Wine still doesn't Just Work (tm). Until that happens, it won't be a viable replacement for Windows. But according to a blog post by one of the developers, it may at one time become very good very fast.

                            And Wine is needed, even with native ports. A big set of games will not get ported until there is a healthy market for Linux gaming. A slightly smaller set will not even get ported then, because there is no code available, or they are enemies (Microsoft). For both reasons, Wine is a step you can't skip for the acceptance of the platform.

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                            • Originally posted by AdrenalineJunky View Post
                              considering the fact that i've seen a couple different game developers respond to the question of supporting linux with "well i've heard it works ok on wine"

                              i don't think wine is going to be a big barganing chip.
                              There's some confusion here. I'm not saying awareness of WINE usage will encourage porting of an existing game. I'm saying it will encourage porting, or rather multi-platform development of a future game.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by AdrenalineJunky View Post
                                considering the fact that i've seen a couple different game developers respond to the question of supporting linux with "well i've heard it works ok on wine"

                                i don't think wine is going to be a big barganing chip.

                                a person using wine is still a person play thier game - thats in thier sold column already, just like it would be for linux native games. only with wine they don't have to do any work for it.
                                This problem will never stop ( there I disagree with Svartalf for once: I don't think this is going to work that way ) if developers have to port games to make them happen on another platform. As long as this is the case there will always be people who don't know well the other platform or do not want to be bothered spending time ( and money ) on a porting effort.

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