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OnLive - Why Linux Gamers Should Take Notice

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  • #16
    why not use http://www.streammygame.com, it even has a linux client, if you want to go down that road.

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    • #17
      Yea,I even tryed SMG and it's pretty impressive.but it was long time ago when i tried it.And why everyone making suck a fuzz about it.I remember when I saw this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4cUl9WFv7g for the first time!Nothing is changed.

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      • #18
        Revolutionary compression? My laugh. There's a certain threshold you can't go below and this is mathematically proven. It's vapor-tech but they know how to wrap it up in honey. You know the .COM bubble also had huge names on board and it burst because it was hype-shit. This is technical and practical nonsense. You can NOT nullify lag. And for those not in the know lag means:

        Lag = Static-Latency + Dynamic-Latency.

        Static-Latency is stuff like round-trip-time and processing overhead on the routers in between. This can not be avoided, is always there and is already quite a large number. Then on top of this we have Dynamic-Latency which is all sorts of unpredictable slow-downs which can happen all along the way. Sum this up and double the number as your input has to travel down ( 1-way ) and then the image back up ( 2-way ). Try to play a shooter with that much latency.

        Note: Some might object that you can use video compression tricks like motion prediction and such. Problem is only that games are a highly in-coherensive experience. In game-dev we call this frame-to-frame coherence. Some stuff changes slightly over time but many things don't... and graphics do NOT belong in this category.
        Last edited by Dragonlord; 03-25-2009, 11:52 AM.

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        • #19
          This is pushed like crazy not because it works (it's over the net, it CAN'T work), but because of people not being able anymore to get warez games over p2p. That's what the companies are after. This ensures that you pay to play. If it works or not doesn't really matter, as long as they get more money.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Wyatt View Post
            You know, I feel like you completely ignored Svartalf up there. See, look at 'em, I think he's gonna cry! You might want to apologise.

            Also, This cnet article provides some decent insight: "...no lag, so long as their Internet connections meet minimum thresholds. For standard-definition play, that would mean a minimum 1.5 Mbps connection, and for high-def, 5 Mbps."

            Now, I don't know if you've all seen what passes for "high definition" these days, but we've had computers, monitors, and games that have been able to do it for more than a decade now. Colour me cynical.
            I read, But what makes it different from the phantom is the fact that is has all the backing it has. It has funding, and a great library of games.

            And it could be good for gaming on all platforms because it opens any game up to be played on any platform regardless of how it's programed. So not only does development cost go way down, but Linux user can finally get in the picture as well.

            Well it's not just that these big names are supporting it, it's that they're putting their high profile games on it. There's brand issues, putting their top games on a platform that fails could hurt their profits and name bad. It's a big risk, so there must be something to it to risk their big name products.

            Eh, I don't really care about high definition play. as long as it's at least Standard quality I'm good. Plus my connection is way more then 1.5 mbps so it's no big deal.

            Hey all I'm saying man is that if it's true it'd be amazing!
            I'm skeptical as well, but I'm hopeful this works. I know there could be latency issues, but as long as I'm playing Prince of Persia and Wheelman on my linux box I could deal with a little lag.

            If it works, I'm set^^
            If it's garbage it's garbage, I'm out what? $20-$30?
            I'll chance it

            Plus I've signed up to Beta test. I'll hopefully be able to test it out before I have to buy anything. And if I don't I'm sure we'll hear some leaked info on how fast the Beta is^^

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Jonsul View Post
              You all should really research it. Quite amazing if it's compression technology is as good as they say.
              Heh... I've researched stuff like this for decades- seriously. The Internet doesn't even remotely work the way you think it does and each connection adds to the picture- and it's not even close to a pretty one at that.

              They're flogging this not because it works over the Internet. They're flogging it as an "antipiracy" play- and the game publishers are the same crowd that're doing the same insanity over "piracy" in the Music and Movies/Video space.

              Here's a hint: Unless you've got the sort of link I have at my house, this will plain-flat NOT work because the speed and latency will not even remotely be there for you.

              Forget Cable.
              Forget DSL unless you've got a business link.
              Forget consumer FIOS or similar. You're sharing the ATM backhauls with other people.

              You will need to shell out $100-200 a month, minimum, for a business service, fixed IP set link to FiOS or similar at 5+ MBits to get the thing to have the same performance that they're showing at GDC right at the moment- and that's for the low-fi play. You'll need the 20Mbit symmetric link I happen to have just to realistically do the Hi-Def one over the Internet- and that is if you don't have issues on the backbone you're sitting on.

              And this doesn't even get into what kinds of pipes the game company is going to need to provide service Add it up. It's not magic. An OC-12, which is "godlike" bandwidth in most people's eyes, can only sustain 415 simultaneous sessions to and from the server pool at LOW RES, it's roughly 83 of them at Hi-Def. That's over 600MBits/second. This sort of crap breaks companies REGULARLY, even in this day and age.

              I've researched video compression tech for a long time.
              I've researched network performance and latency for a long time.

              I've held down jobs collecting the data from 8 primary securities trading markets daily- the full trading volume brutalizes OC3's effortlessly. This would savage an OC-12 like nobody's business.

              I've been the CTO of a set-top box company trying to do on-demand video, etc. for years. 1.5Mbits of "low-def" video compression's nice, but it's not much different than MPEG4 rate with a few other things tacked on. I wish I had it back then- would have made a store and forward caching system for that sort of thing viable back a few years back- I would still be the CTO for the company, now effectively dead, as they'd have had quite a few customers in hand.

              This is someone trying to make a play for investor money and bilk them out of it. Seriously. You can discount what I'm saying here, but in the end, what I'm remarking on is the brutal reality of what they're claiming and everyone's twittering about here. It's not magic. It won't do what you think it will.

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              • #22
                Has anyone paid http://www.onlive.com/ a visit lately?
                Not Found
                All your base are belong to us.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Wyatt View Post
                  You know, I feel like you completely ignored Svartalf up there. See, look at 'em, I think he's gonna cry! You might want to apologise.
                  Feh... It'd take a bit more than that to "hurt my feelings".

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                  • #24
                    This isn't all that impossible. HP has a technology called RGS which was made to stream graphics over a LAN or WAN to a thin client or other low powered machine. This includes 3D and it currently working on both Linux on Windows. I've seen it run a few times and it works very well, you can't tell the difference. Of course this was on a LAN but still this idea isn't that far fetched.

                    Of course this won't be the death of windows gaming or Linux gaming. Most likely they will have a client which runs on Linux Windows and Mac while their servers all run Windows.

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                    • #25
                      I'm keeping an open mind about it, if it does work a linux port would be beneficial although I'd much rather play the games on my PC and not stream them. That said I wouldn't be surprised if this disappears quietly like Valves PowerPlay did being unable to over come latency issues.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by nukem View Post
                        Of course this won't be the death of windows gaming or Linux gaming. Most likely they will have a client which runs on Linux Windows and Mac while their servers all run Windows.
                        You can put money on them pushing for linux games if it works to cut costs of running the service.

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                        • #27
                          Uhm... LAN and WAN are two entirely different things. On a LAN you are mostly connected to each other over one switch if everything goes well and using fiber. But on the internet you have tons of switches, routers and what the hell else in between. It's like saying you can drive a sports car on a shoddy overland road. Sure you can but it's a bumpy ride and slow unless you like picking your exhaust pipe from the latest larger stone on the road you hit.

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                          • #28
                            Yeah I already know,
                            It's near impossible
                            All I'm saying is if it works it's be awesome.

                            Which is true, so I'll waste my $30 bucks and do the Beta,
                            If it sucks I'll let you know. If it works I'll let you know
                            too.

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                            • #29
                              I've just opened a www.onlive.com and while watching their intro movie, it stopped cca 7 times, because of too slow video stream (and right now I'm sitting in LAN with other 5000 computers in student campus behind 20+ Mbps internet connection). So how would it look like to play NFS on 1024x768?

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                              • #30
                                Guys it won't work, simple as that. Want to know why?

                                Open a terminal and type "ping phoronix.com".

                                The human brain can easily detect latencies in the order of 10ms. Compare that to the number above. See now?

                                Read Svartalf's answer for a more technical explanation.

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