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Bioware's Dragon Age Petition for Linux?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by niniendowarrior View Post
    I didn't know John even contributed code.
    Yep. He got involved when Q3:A was coming out and he was dismayed at the paltry amount of support for 3D for Linux and decided to help out some. It was cool working on the drivers with him during that period.

    Hey, they've got to sell all that backlog somehow. People think LucasArts pushed Obsidian to release it premature. But with NWN 2, it does seem like Obsidian can be quite a wreckless bunch. Maybe we will get to see a NWN 1 + 2 bundle soon. Do you know how did the Mac OSX port of KotOR 2 fared? At least I think there was a Mac port... or maybe that was KotOR 1.
    KOTOR had a port done by Aspyr. I don't think KOTOR2 was ported. God, I'd hope not... For the Mac crowd's sake... And a KOTOR/KOTOR2 set for Linux? Ugh... I thought you cared about Linux gaming... As for NWN2, it was some of Obsidian's doing, but mostly due to Atari ORDERING Obsidian to do a port from OpenGL to DirectX for the rendering engine, in an abortive attempt to get a "competitive" answer to Oblivion on the X-Box 360 that they ran out of resources for and had to backtrack to the PC version with the resultant mess. Obsidian MIGHT have been in a similar bind with LucasArts with KOTOR2- that is always a problem with being a the followup studio on a franchise title, not being in a position to tell a publisher "Hell, NO- that'll screw us all up!" on a bad idea, like iD, Epic, or even BioWare can do.

    I think it's kind of a chicken and egg problem. You cannot expand the gaming install base without games and companies aren't going to put in the effort without a consumer base.

    Linux only games is going to be extremely difficult case to build. It's a pity that this is the case. I agree that the only other recourse is to form your own, and you'll most likely end up like Loki. Belly up. My hats off to you for trying. I often feel passionate about the Linux gaming arena because it looks quite pitiful and I'm quite happy to know that there's somebody else I can connect to with this topic (Finding people who have a pint interest in Linux gaming are quite hard to find ).
    Who can rightly say what will happen in a year's time? I can't- at least it's not directly clear for me right at the moment. If it were, I could tell you much more. Of some of my plans. Of how it'd help everyone... But no such thing is forthcoming- yet.
    Last edited by Svartalf; 03-18-2007, 01:02 AM.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
      Yep. He got involved when Q3:A was coming out and he was dismayed at the paltry amount of support for 3D for Linux and decided to help out some. It was cool working on the drivers with him during that period.
      That is truly awesome to know.

      Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
      KOTOR had a port done by Aspyr. I don't think KOTOR2 was ported. God, I'd hope not... For the Mac crowd's sake... And a KOTOR/KOTOR2 set for Linux? Ugh... I thought you cared about Linux gaming... As for NWN2, it was some of Obsidian's doing, but mostly due to Atari ORDERING Obsidian to do a port from OpenGL to DirectX for the rendering engine, in an abortive attempt to get a "competitive" answer to Oblivion on the X-Box 360 that they ran out of resources for and had to backtrack to the PC version with the resultant mess. Obsidian MIGHT have been in a similar bind with LucasArts with KOTOR2- that is always a problem with being a the followup studio on a franchise title, not being in a position to tell a publisher "Hell, NO- that'll screw us all up!" on a bad idea, like iD, Epic, or even BioWare can do.
      Ha! Well, I was just thinking there might be a remote chance that a porting house might 'finish' KotOR 2, with all the axed planets and all.

      I didn't know NWN2 was chasing Oblivion. But for me, finding out Obsidian was doing it instead of Bioware was enough to erase it from my wish list. You have a point about follow-up studios. When people decide on certain things and there's no way to challenge that decision, crap happens. The best game ideas turn to crap this way.

      Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
      Who can rightly say what will happen in a year's time? I can't- at least it's not directly clear for me right at the moment. If it were, I could tell you much more. Of some of my plans. Of how it'd help everyone... But no such thing is forthcoming- yet.
      Come on, Svartalf. You didn't go all the way of painting that picture of cynicism and pessimism just to tell me that this year might be the year of change, did you?

      I honestly don't think it'll change in 5 years time... maybe even more. I do think that no matter how unlikely it is, it always starts with the first step and if nobody takes that first step, you'll never get there.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by niniendowarrior View Post
        Come on, Svartalf. You didn't go all the way of painting that picture of cynicism and pessimism just to tell me that this year might be the year of change, did you?

        I honestly don't think it'll change in 5 years time... maybe even more. I do think that no matter how unlikely it is, it always starts with the first step and if nobody takes that first step, you'll never get there.
        Well, I've been on the first step for the last five or so years- I've been trying to take the next for a while now.

        Vista's a train-wreck. Trust me, NOBODY in their right mind will want it- even DX10's not performing like they'd hope for it to on EITHER company's chipsets...
        Linux is doing far better than other people would give us all credit for- if only AMD would shore up their performance and we could have 2-3 solid performers in the 3D space...
        You've got hardcore Windows fans giving pause about that and the DRM that's in Vista- and putting on the brakes and possibly considering Linux as at least an option.

        We're sitting at a tipping point for Linux- and I know what needs to be done and how- and can't do a damn thing about it in my current situation. Though that situation MIGHT just change in the coming months.

        I'm still cynical right at the moment largely from having to live through five years of being in a possible position to tip that balance, only to NOT have the financial resources to do so because of the downturn in the economy. That might be ending soon for several different reasons. I'd be a little more optimistic if I knew if my company was actually finally getting their VC funding or not. That alone would put me in a position to impact business and industry- and the back pay and pay going forward could be used to fund other things... But, since it's still all more of a pipe-dream right at the moment (We've been fighting with it for a while now... While we're the closest we've ever been, until the deal all closes, it's NOT there.) I have to keep struggling with what I've in hand- and five years of that will make most anyone cynical. So, with seeing the light on the other end of the tunnel, I'm thinking it's a train instead of the end right at the moment...

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
          Well, I've been on the first step for the last five or so years- I've been trying to take the next for a while now.
          It sort of sunk into me that Linux gaming is on its first steps except that it cannot find the next step forward. Sad that it hasn't happened yet.

          Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
          Vista's a train-wreck. Trust me, NOBODY in their right mind will want it- even DX10's not performing like they'd hope for it to on EITHER company's chipsets...

          Linux is doing far better than other people would give us all credit for- if only AMD would shore up their performance and we could have 2-3 solid performers in the 3D space...
          You've got hardcore Windows fans giving pause about that and the DRM that's in Vista- and putting on the brakes and possibly considering Linux as at least an option.
          You're assuming people are interested in moving to Vista. Vista has been receiving quite some flack and honestly, I don't see myself even reading a sentence about that OS. I do think that if Vista doesn't fly, people will stick to XP. So the number of Linux users isn't likely to change anytime soon.

          Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
          We're sitting at a tipping point for Linux- and I know what needs to be done and how- and can't do a damn thing about it in my current situation. Though that situation MIGHT just change in the coming months.
          Makes me wonder what that one shot solution is. Might I look forward into the distant future to hear your thoughts?

          Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
          I'm still cynical right at the moment largely from having to live through five years of being in a possible position to tip that balance, only to NOT have the financial resources to do so because of the downturn in the economy. That might be ending soon for several different reasons. I'd be a little more optimistic if I knew if my company was actually finally getting their VC funding or not. That alone would put me in a position to impact business and industry- and the back pay and pay going forward could be used to fund other things... But, since it's still all more of a pipe-dream right at the moment (We've been fighting with it for a while now... While we're the closest we've ever been, until the deal all closes, it's NOT there.) I have to keep struggling with what I've in hand- and five years of that will make most anyone cynical. So, with seeing the light on the other end of the tunnel, I'm thinking it's a train instead of the end right at the moment...
          That's quite a long time of getting stuck. Linux gaming seems always like a pipe-dream. As long as money matters, things will always look difficult on Linux game development. No consumer base means driving to a brick wall. I think through the 3 years of working on Linux, I've heard all that promise and it just never seemed to happen. I guess I can welcome myself to your gloomy club.
          Last edited by niniendowarrior; 03-18-2007, 11:05 PM.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
            The only way for them to know there's interest is to show it. It might not sway them this round, but it might next one- as long as they're being nice, they're not explicitly saying "NO" to us, and we're interested in what might be a cool game, we ought to have a presence there. Having said this, I have no illusions that we're going to get a Linux version out of them at this point- it's not terribly likely with some of the commentary from the Bioware people. I'd love to be surprised by them, but...
            I don't see a forum thread as likely to "sway" anything. If every poster sent a 10 donation to Bioware, which would then be discounted from the price of the game if they bought it, then perhaps. But people making free posts on a free forum provide little indication of commerical viability of a product. For example, I'd sign a petition or post in a forum to get Dragon Age on Linux, but I wouldn't buy it

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Synergy6 View Post
              I don't see a forum thread as likely to "sway" anything. If every poster sent a 10 donation to Bioware, which would then be discounted from the price of the game if they bought it, then perhaps. But people making free posts on a free forum provide little indication of commercial viability of a product. For example, I'd sign a petition or post in a forum to get Dragon Age on Linux, but I wouldn't buy it
              I'm not going to hand them 10 to hold onto on the oft chance that they MIGHT port the thing for us. That translates into almost half the US dollar value of the silly thing- for something they might/might not do. If I could get assurances that it was an actual deposit on the entire process, and a refund from them if they didn't- it'd be a different story. But, no business in their right mind would do this unless they're being magnanimous (In which case, why are they NOT doing it anyhow?)- it'd be far too much of a hassle and liability to do that sort of thing otherwise.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
                I'm not going to hand them 10 to hold onto on the oft chance that they MIGHT port the thing for us. That translates into almost half the US dollar value of the silly thing- for something they might/might not do. If I could get assurances that it was an actual deposit on the entire process, and a refund from them if they didn't- it'd be a different story. But, no business in their right mind would do this unless they're being magnanimous (In which case, why are they NOT doing it anyhow?)- it'd be far too much of a hassle and liability to do that sort of thing otherwise.
                Yeah.. I wouldn't do that either myself, because there is a high chance that it will lead nowhere. The thing is, petitions never seem to really have any effect on these companies. Yeah, its always great to try, I definitely agree. However, for some reason, they must use directx, and the funny thing is, directx is way messier than opengl/openal/sdl. Hell, Microsoft dropped Directsound because it was just so horrible and they knew it and switched to openal.

                As far as D&D titles, sounds like you guys are just gonna have to stick with Neverwinter Nights. Although, the thing that doesn't make much sense is that they port Neverwinter Nights but have no plans to port any future games. And Neverwinter Nights is still the community favorite for many many reasons.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Malikith View Post
                  Yeah.. I wouldn't do that either myself, because there is a high chance that it will lead nowhere. The thing is, petitions never seem to really have any effect on these companies. Yeah, its always great to try, I definitely agree. However, for some reason, they must use directx, and the funny thing is, directx is way messier than opengl/openal/sdl. Hell, Microsoft dropped Directsound because it was just so horrible and they knew it and switched to openal.

                  As far as D&D titles, sounds like you guys are just gonna have to stick with Neverwinter Nights. Although, the thing that doesn't make much sense is that they port Neverwinter Nights but have no plans to port any future games. And Neverwinter Nights is still the community favorite for many many reasons.
                  Heh... At the rate things are going, they'll drop DirectPlay (the network stack, which is now deprecated- you're encouraged to do WinSock2 code instead... Ugh...) for something like RakNet, OpenPlay, or Grapple (I vote for RakNet or Grapple- both are MUCH more sensible in nature to OpenPlay and Apple's hoping someone would come along and fix it proper or axe it...).

                  Everyone does DirectX because it's accessable and MS does such good marketing. Target the primary market and all. This is changing.

                  You want a PS3 title? You're doing OpenGL/OpenAL, etc.
                  You want a Wii title? Ditto.
                  You want a mobile title? Ditto.
                  You want a MacOS title? Ditto.

                  In reality, the market segment for things NOT MS is about half or more of the actual market- and has been for quite some time. And these guys are leaving it lying on the floor.

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                  • #24
                    Personally, I don't think DX/GL is the main issue (though, obviously, it is a factor). Bigger obstacles are things like distro support, after-sales service, etc. Changing graphics engines for different platforms is relatively common-place by now, but Linux has further problems of its own.

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