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Using Udev Without Systemd Is Going To Become Harder

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  • Using Udev Without Systemd Is Going To Become Harder

    Phoronix: Using Udev Without Systemd Is Going To Become Harder

    Since the udev code-base was merged with systemd, it's become more difficult to use udev without systemd, but it's only going to become incredibly difficult to handle once KDBUS has been merged into the mainline Linux kernel...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTczNjI

  • #2
    I think Lennart was being too harsh. That guy was actually very gentle in his request. I understand Lennart gets crap all the time, but don't take it out on someone who actually isn't being a dick.

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    • #3
      Brace Shitstorm is Coming, i hope KDBUS lands in 3.17

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      • #4
        Embrace.

        Extend.

        Extinguish.

        We are waiting for the next project to be swallowed and crippled by Lennart.

        For better or worse, systemd and pulse are the reality of Linux for the next year or more. Once they implode, we'll need to move over to something else, as regularly happens in Linux. We've survived hal, devfs, esd, arts and a million other things, so let's hope that whatever succeeds systemd is going to be saner and managed by less destructive individuals.
        Last edited by pingufunkybeat; 07-07-2014, 09:34 AM.

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        • #5
          I hate Lennart's attitude, he acts just as a annoying spoiled kid. You either love and praise him, or be ridiculed. I don't doubt he is an intelligent man, but he's got a cult following him already who will go ahead and mock everyone he does.

          You see that when he presents a patch, he already includes the words "systemd haters". This way he can avoid any opposition. It's like some political minorities nowadays that call everyone who doesn't like anything they do just "haters".

          And oh, we need to be politically correct, right? So please, don't oppose the man.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
            Embrace.

            Extend.

            Extinguish.

            We are waiting for the next project to be swallowed and crippled by Lennart.

            For better or worse, systemd and pulse are the reality of Linux for the next year or more. Once they implode, we'll need to move over to something else, as regularly happens in Linux. We've survived hal, devfs, esd, arts and a million other things, so let's hope that whatever succeeds systemd is going to be saner and managed by less destructive individuals.
            That is what they said about Linux. I am 1999 user, and still waiting to implode. I am with lennard, and am I glad he makes Linux userspace evolve with each day passing.
            The things that you say "hal, devfs, esd, arts..." is called evolution, the same can be said about the kernel "ifw, iptables, nftables". And guess what, the Linux kernel motto is: Evolution, not revolution.
            And don't mess us with M$ and that EEE.

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            • #7
              The guy is just a whole cancer on the Linux project.

              I see Linux experiencing a severe fracture within the next 5-10 years, something far worse than Android initially was.

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              • #8
                Linus, now it is your turn. Stop accepting crippled patches from that guy.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by johnc View Post
                  The guy is just a whole cancer on the Linux project.

                  I see Linux experiencing a severe fracture within the next 5-10 years, something far worse than Android initially was.
                  Actually, no. Lennart is pretty awesome. He always takes the most difficult projects and he has the most interesting ideas. His biggest problem is that he's often less considerate of others and moves the projects too fast, which results in too many bugs and inefficiencies. Sadly, this affects the adoption phase and puts him in negative light.

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                  • #10
                    Re

                    Originally posted by johnc View Post
                    The guy is just a whole cancer on the Linux project.

                    I see Linux experiencing a severe fracture within the next 5-10 years, something far worse than Android initially was.
                    The guy wants to improve the experience on Linux, you will be able to make bus calls without libudev... currently this is separated and it sucks...

                    I actually understand Lennart's frustration. This only will improve the experience, you don't see why someone would be against it - and here this guy comes with false claims that he doesn't hate on systemd while being opposed to something which does good, there is no other explanation to it just that the intention is to harm the project - and here comes the frustration...

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                    • #11
                      Don't know all the specificities on these projects (i.e. udev and systemd) but, although I agree that in general it's good to be modular, it's also a good idea to focus on improvements from time to time.
                      Honestly, we're talking about pretty low level architectures, do we really need to be *that* modular?

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Alliancemd View Post
                        I actually understand Lennart's frustration. This only will improve the experience, you don't see why someone would be against it - and here this guy comes with false claims that he doesn't hate on systemd while being opposed to something which does good, there is no other explanation to it just that the intention is to harm the project - and here comes the frustration...
                        Since when does "I don't agree with this change to a VERY WIDESPREAD piece of software that ALMOST EVERYBODY (including those not using systemd) uses, that makes it so that non-systemd users can't use it. Please at least give us a way to work around it." Mean systemd hater? It's very logical to ask for Lennart to at least think about people besides himself.

                        But judging from Lennart's response, I'm going to assume that's impossible.

                        (Note, I use and like systemd, but Lennart is one of the biggest douches I've ever seen. Please, those who praise Lennart for anything except his good ideas and code (not that they're all good, mind you), get your head out of his ass.)

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                        • #13
                          Very True

                          Originally posted by Anarchy View Post
                          Actually, no. Lennart is pretty awesome. He always takes the most difficult projects and he has the most interesting ideas. His biggest problem is that he's often less considerate of others and moves the projects too fast, which results in too many bugs and inefficiencies. Sadly, this affects the adoption phase and puts him in negative light.
                          To add to this insight, sometimes it's not what you say but how you say it. Lennart has a way of things in ways in the larger Linux community that tend to place him in a negative light.

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                          • #14
                            Everyone should calm down

                            Originally posted by Anarchy View Post
                            Actually, no. Lennart is pretty awesome. He always takes the most difficult projects and he has the most interesting ideas. His biggest problem is that he's often less considerate of others and moves the projects too fast, which results in too many bugs and inefficiencies. Sadly, this affects the adoption phase and puts him in negative light.
                            Exactly. I actually like Lennart, and we are in good terms. I'm not happy that this particular thread post was referenced in this Phoronix post in this way, because it doesn't give
                            an accurate picture of what is really going on.
                            I wouldn't mind systemd becoming the Gentoo default, as I see systemd becoming the norm in Linux userspace, but that hasn't happened yet, and migration will need time.
                            So, with all the best in mind, for everyone, for everything, I was only expressing that I'd like udev from systemd tree be usable without *an running systemd instance*
                            for longer time, so users don't get too dramatical change too fast.

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                            • #15
                              In A Word...Yes

                              Originally posted by Creak View Post
                              Don't know all the specificities on these projects (i.e. udev and systemd) but, although I agree that in general it's good to be modular, it's also a good idea to focus on improvements from time to time.
                              Honestly, we're talking about pretty low level architectures, do we really need to be *that* modular?
                              Computing system architectures at any level should be modular for many reasons, but they mostly revolve around maintenance. Ever wonder why many Linux patches on Git are small? Perhaps that problem was a real small problem? Valid point. Perhaps it is easier to resolve the problem by breaking ti down into small pieces so the impact of each little piece can be evaluated? Yes, and it helps with bisecting patches if/when they cause issues further down the line.

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