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KDBUS & Systemd Now Yields A Working System

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  • #16
    Originally posted by JS987 View Post
    Security hole in kernel code can have bigger impact than security hole in user space code. Kernel developers don't really care about security.
    kdbus is a simpler protocol than dbus-daemon and integration with things like namespaces only help with better security. Kernel security isn't a binary thing and sometimes userspace can have a much bigger impact than kernel bugs. It really depends on what kind of security hole it is. For instance, BIND bugs caused havoc a few years back more than any Linux kernel issue ever did. While Linux kernel security could certainly better, it is very much incorrect to claim that kernel developers don't care about security. Some developers work on it very diligently including say Kees Cook, Dan, James Morris and several others. The solution isn't to hide your head in the sand. It is to provide the functionality that developers need and IPC mechanisms are pretty core to what is needed for Linux as a platform.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by RahulSundaram View Post
      So many factual inaccuracies in so few sentences. The current kdbus project was written from scratch and no student was involved in it and what if they were? Even Linux kernel was written by a student in the first place! D-Bus is the most widely used IPC system in Linux and installed by default in most Linux systems far more than any ZeroMQ or Google Protobuf, neither of which are even really comparable. Also current development of kdbus isn't done by Greg KH at all. If you have done any IPC programming, your comments would make more sense.
      Kdbus was in fact a student project, it was not written from scratch by the kernel team. Sorry to tell you this but D-Bus might be the most widely installed IPC but its the least used IPC in linux. ZeroMQ and Google Protobuf might not have all the features of D-Bus but most of those advanced features are rarely even used even in D-Bus. And
      D-Bus doesn't even come close to ZeroMQ is usage share not even close.

      Even when comparing D-Bus vs ZeroMQ in the IPC arena for every one D-Bus Desktop application there is 1000+ ZeroMQ network applications using its native IPC there.

      Go take your fanboy bullshit someplace else.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by RahulSundaram View Post
        kdbus is a simpler protocol than dbus-daemon and integration with things like namespaces only help with better security. Kernel security isn't a binary thing and sometimes userspace can have a much bigger impact than kernel bugs. It really depends on what kind of security hole it is. For instance, BIND bugs caused havoc a few years back more than any Linux kernel issue ever did. While Linux kernel security could certainly better, it is very much incorrect to claim that kernel developers don't care about security. Some developers work on it very diligently including say Kees Cook, Dan, James Morris and several others. The solution isn't to hide your head in the sand. It is to provide the functionality that developers need and IPC mechanisms are pretty core to what is needed for Linux as a platform.
        Well I would hope it was a simpler api lol, full on D-Bus sitting in the kernel would be insane. Ummmm IPC and Security don't compute sorry IPC is anti-security by default, not saying we shouldn't use it but to putting it in the kernel on a system that isn't locked down is stupid. And kdbus's api is odd and still overly complex for something so sensitive to kernel security.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by zester View Post
          Well I would hope it was a simpler api lol, full on D-Bus sitting in the kernel would be insane. Ummmm IPC and Security don't compute sorry IPC is anti-security by default, not saying we shouldn't use it but to putting it in the kernel on a system that isn't locked down is stupid. And kdbus's api is odd and still overly complex for something so sensitive to kernel security.
          What experience do you have to back up your claims?

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          • #20
            Originally posted by zester View Post
            <snip crazy ranting>
            Go take your fanboy bullshit someplace else.
            Heh, irony.
            Good to know I can killfile you without loosing anything though.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by zester View Post
              Kdbus was in fact a student project, it was not written from scratch by the kernel team. Sorry to tell you this but D-Bus might be the most widely installed IPC but its the least used IPC in linux. ZeroMQ and Google Protobuf might not have all the features of D-Bus but most of those advanced features are rarely even used even in D-Bus. And D-Bus doesn't even come close to ZeroMQ is usage share not even close.
              [trimming out needless swearing and name calling]

              The current kdbus project was started by Greg KH.

              https://github.com/gregkh/kdbus

              Which student are you refering to? Where is his code? Why is student code somehow bad anyway? Also the notion that D-Bus is used less than Google Protobuf or ZeroMQ in Linux is not backed up any evidence. The repository dependencies in any Linux distro would show the opposite clearly. Next time provide referenes to back up your claims.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by RahulSundaram View Post

                The current kdbus project was started by Greg KH.
                https://github.com/gregkh/kdbus
                Didn't you just say

                Originally posted by RahulSundaram View Post
                Also current development of kdbus isn't done by Greg KH at all.
                Go ahead and backtrack on that

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by zester View Post
                  Didn't you just say



                  Go ahead and backtrack on that
                  Are you trying to be clever or do you have so much trouble following a train of thought? It was originated by Greg KH but the active development right now is carried out by others including Kay, Lennart and others. Feel free to verify by cloning the repository at

                  https://code.google.com/p/d-bus/

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by RahulSundaram View Post
                    Are you trying to be clever or do you have so much trouble following a train of thought? It was originated by Greg KH but the active development right now is carried out by others including Kay, Lennart and others. Feel free to verify by cloning the repository at

                    https://code.google.com/p/d-bus/
                    And now your resulting to insults I guess I have the same super powers"killfile you without loosing anything though.", clone it ummm no thanks I did a code review on it
                    already that shit isn't touching my tree. Ill just join the rest and back-port, future improvements to the kernel without kdbus.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by zester View Post
                      And now your resulting to insults I guess I have the same super powers"killfile you without loosing anything though.", clone it ummm no thanks I did a code review on it
                      already that shit isn't touching my tree. Ill just join the rest and back-port, future improvements to the kernel without kdbus.
                      You really do have trouble apparently. The kill file thing wasn't even mentioned by me and you still haven't told me the name of the student who started kdbus. If you already done any kind of code review, you would already know that active development in kdbus has nothing to do with Greg KH. So I very much doubt your code review claims.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by RahulSundaram View Post
                        You really do have trouble apparently. The kill file thing wasn't even mentioned by me and you still haven't told me the name of the student who started kdbus. If you already done any kind of code review, you would already know that active development in kdbus has nothing to do with Greg KH. So I very much doubt your code review claims.
                        Do you work for Red Hat? If so I have a couple of questions for you and Red Hat's relationship with the NSA.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by zester View Post
                          Do you work for Red Hat? If so I have a couple of questions for you and Red Hat's relationship with the NSA.
                          No. I don't work for Red Hat.

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                          • #28
                            Anyways I could demonstrate what experience I have with software development and ipc in general you would be impressed and my hands would hurt from all the copying/pasting, in the end it would all be pointless as the debate would just go back and fourth for days on end.

                            It's clear you have some form of invested interest into kdbus, that's fine. Regardless I maintain my own kernel tree.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by zester View Post
                              Do you work for Red Hat? If so I have a couple of questions for you and Red Hat's relationship with the NSA.
                              Zester... You're actually managing to piss ME off just from READING this conversation, and that doesn't happen often. Development of projects move on from their originals, Greg isn't the main developer anymore-- if he's even a developer on it at all. And you still have yet to say WHO or give reference TO who was this so called "Student Developer" that started KDBUS. So either start providing sources or shutup and stop trolling

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by zester View Post
                                Anyways I could demonstrate what experience I have with software development and ipc in general you would be impressed and my hands would hurt from all the copying/pasting, in the end it would all be pointless as the debate would just go back and fourth for days on end.
                                Nice one, you both dodged the issues at hands while pulling yourself back up on your high horse. No, please, copy paste. Provide references to the points that you are fervently defending, just as Rahul has to the LWN articles in question. Otherwise the safest assumption is you're a troll who's full of bullshit and just trying to be a dick.

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