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  • #31
    Java vs C#?

    Seriously?
    While I believe C# to have a nicer syntax/API when compared to Java, they are both technologies I wouldn't use.

    They're quite similar and neither of them is really cross platform.
    Java looks like crap on any non windows platform (and, please, don't make me think about those ugly themes) and literally eat RAM.
    Mono isn't really crossplatform (let's say you share code among different platform) and is heavy as hell on any non windows platform.

    To develop crossplatform GUI applications the only library which comes close is Qt.
    While not perfect (on some platform the appearance is not always the same) you nearly always have a native look in your application.
    Plus, using C++ with QTL is totally another world (when compared to STL or other libraries).
    It's the proof that C++ can be easy.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Rallos Zek View Post
      Java and JDK are awesome!
      As someone who has developed in both C# and Java, I can say that Java is superior to C#. You write
      much less code, and things are so much nicer.
      Also the Java Class Library (JCL) is much nicer than the .NET framework.
      And Eclipse beats Visual Studio out of the water.
      Also stuff like Java FX is really nice.





      FTFY
      You actually broke it.

      C# might be a great language, however I'll probably never use it. I can't feel safe using Mono on Linux - not after the years-long campaign Microsoft held (and still hold) against Linux vendors.

      MS claimed that Linux is violating its patents and threatened to sue. How can I be assured they won't use some bogus C# patent to extort me? On the client side nobody uses C# anyway, and there are Python/Ruby/Jave etc on the server side. Why take a risk?
      In reality, Microsoft doesn't care about you.

      P.S: Do you have a surplus of cash that Microsoft would be interested in obtaining?

      I prefer Java because it's less convoluted than C#, easier and more elegant and purer OOP .
      Just plain wrong.

      Hoewever, the strength of C# doesn't lie in the language itself but in it's .NET library. In java you usually have to draw upon third-party (in most cases open source) libraries to do the same.
      Which is a moot point since C# is distributed with those libraries. The same can be said about Java, C++ and many other languages.


      Language wise, I've never found anything that I can't do in Java with it's simpler and easier to remember language constructs. The only thing I miss in Java is an easier way to interface with native libraries. I've never liked the JNI.
      That doesn't really say anything about C# or .Net/Mono.

      True!

      Mono is useful for Microsoft to avoid anti-trust trials and claim it's "multiplatform", but...
      can you use mono? and your friends? and your customers?
      Is that something you came up with your self or are you just regurgitating bullshit produced by someone else.
      Beware of Microsoft's "property". It is patented.

      So, who really cares if it's theoretically any good, when legally it is a threat for you?
      Many people obviously.

      Remember Java in Google vs Oracle?

      Btw. how many of you actually develop & deploy larger applications, which have to run seemlessly on several platforms at the same time? The amount of pro-C# voices here tells me, that it isn't the majority.
      I do actually. One was deployed Monday after roughly 9 months of development (primarily by me).

      I'd wager money that there's some microsoft employees posting on phoronix.
      I'd put big money on that statement being false. Would you put money on it being true?

      Miguel de Icaza is a fu*king moron and a profi troll. Case closed.
      There's no need for that man.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by alexThunder View Post
        Yes, I noticed. It's cool how you can easily determine, whether someone actually knows, what he's talking about or not in IT related stuff, just by the way how he talks about it.

        Originally posted by frampone View Post
        Java looks like crap on any non windows platform
        Originally posted by frampone View Post
        and literally eat RAM.
        Thanks for delivering a perfect example so quickly :P

        Comment


        • #34
          Icaza's propaganda

          Originally posted by jayrulez View Post
          It is incredible how successful Mono was able to become. They have produced an incredible framework for application development. There is an increase it its adoption by companies of various sizes. Mono has a bright future and may even become the de facto implementation of .NET as Microsoft seems to pay more attention to its Windows RT framework these days (See little innovation/improvements in the last release).

          It has provided a way out for users of frameworks that are all but abandoned by Microsoft (XNA).
          It is available and seeing increased adoption on all major platforms (despite the steep cost on some platforms). The tools (both existing and in development) are quite useful.

          The playscript implementation will be a big deal in the future.
          You're kidding, right? Or perhaps, you just copied this from M$r Icaza's website?

          Comment


          • #35
            Does anyone know if CppSharp, which was mentioned in the slides, will mean anything for the Qyoto team? It would be nice if Qt and by extension QtQuick2/QML was finally accessible in C#.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by jayrulez View Post
              In reality, Microsoft doesn't care about you.
              They do, otherwise they wouldn't sent such propaganda boy like you to phoronix forums.

              P.S: Do you have a surplus of cash that Microsoft would be interested in obtaining?
              Yes, user base. As for mono nono, there are just FEW mono apps available on Linux and they're joke compared to non mono counterparts. Who will ever bother with something like this? Furthermore, mono nono isn't .Net compatible. Get lost.
              Last edited by Pawlerson; 08-21-2013, 11:09 AM.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by jayrulez View Post
                Mono has a bright future and may even become the de facto implementation of .NET as Microsoft seems to pay more attention to its Windows RT framework these days (See little innovation/improvements in the last release).
                Well what I read on the matter seemed to indicate that they were focusing mostly on Roslyn as opposed to working on features, Which is supposed to come with the version of visual studio after the 2013 version. What I expect is that Roslyn is going to be the big feature for 2013.next(), and then we're going to start seeing more features beyond that coming in again for 2013.next().next() (Not that Roslyn isn't itself a megafeature).

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                • #38
                  C# never got widely used and is not an open standard, hence forget about it.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Pawlerson View Post
                    They do, otherwise they wouldn't sent such propaganda boy like you to phoronix forums.



                    Yes, user base. As for mono nono, there are just FEW mono apps available on Linux and they're joke compared to non mono counterparts. Who will ever bother with something like this? Furthermore, mono nono isn't .Net compatible. Get lost.


                    "Propaganda boy". I must admit that this is a new one.

                    Welcome to the fucking Internet where everyone with an opinion is a hater|fanboy|shill|"Propaganda boy" or some other colourful adjective.

                    You idiots are going to shun Mono then complain that there are just a few Mono apps available for Linux. I'm alarmed by this paradox.

                    Also, there are a lot of apps on Linux and they're a joke compared to the non-Linux counterparts. See how that can work?
                    Not inherent to Mono.

                    ou're kidding, right? Or perhaps, you just copied this from M$r Icaza's website?
                    No, no.
                    Last edited by jayrulez; 08-21-2013, 12:22 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Mono is trying to implement .NET with the languages and facilities, libraries, api's that come with it.
                      However many things are patented.
                      It is a distraction from the fact that .NET only works on windows and to pretend they give a shit about cross-platform to push back against HTML+Javascript/Java/Ruby/Others...

                      There are much better ways to improve things.
                      If they wanted to improve tools for Linux why not help with other projects or help with porting Linux IDE's and stuff to Windows?
                      There are non-Microsoft dialects of basic. Why not do something similar?
                      Change some little things and call it something different. It works for Microsoft.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Pawlerson View Post
                        Yes, user base. As for mono nono, there are just FEW mono apps available on Linux and they're joke compared to non mono counterparts. Who will ever bother with something like this? Furthermore, mono nono isn't .Net compatible. Get lost.
                        It has been a while since I ran any desktop file indexers. In 2009 Beagle was fat, slow and used a lot of RAM. It was written in Mono. However, Tracker was slower, indexed fewer formats, and gave me more hassles than Beagle did. Tracker would go into infinite CPU loops, for example. Win for Mono there.

                        That desktop post-it note program whose name I can't remember was written in Mono. The anti-Mono zealots cloned it in C, which took them about four times as long to write. The result was indeed faster and used less RAM. But if you look at it in terms of programming time the original was a win for Mono because it was so easy to write.

                        I'm not sure what you mean exactly by not .Net compatible. Last time I tried it in 2010, I was able to write a WinForms app that ran on Windows, Linux Mono on amd64 and Linux Mono on Itanium. I did have to be careful with what WinForms features I used but it did work.

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                        • #42
                          Exactly Zan Lynx!!! You had to be careful with what WinForms features you used because WinForms has patents all over it!
                          But for porting applications you also need to port the WinForms part!
                          Very clear this is some kind of trojan horse. Just like pushing exFAT for embedded devices and pushing FAT file system into SD card standard

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by plonoma View Post
                            Exactly Zan Lynx!!! You had to be careful with what WinForms features you used because WinForms has patents all over it!
                            No I had to be careful because it wasn't all implemented and the Microsoft form designer kept trying to add incompatible features to the project.

                            As for patents and Mono see http://www.jprl.com/Blog/archive/dev...09/Jan-19.html

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Comparing Java to C# is like comparing Linux to Windows. I personally feel it does not make sense. There are 100 reasons why to use the first and another 100 reasons to use the second. I can personally find more reasons to use Linux but I'm sure someone else will find more reasons to use Windows.

                              In other words, use what you need. IT is not a religion.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by bulletxt View Post
                                Comparing Java to C# is like comparing Linux to Windows. I personally feel it does not make sense. There are 100 reasons why to use the first and another 100 reasons to use the second. I can personally find more reasons to use Linux but I'm sure someone else will find more reasons to use Windows.

                                In other words, use what you need. IT is not a religion.
                                well.. they're actually rather comparable because they're the two big competing managed language frameworks, that derive from the same source and are starting out with the same goal: to Write a managed strongly and explicitly typed C-Like language that supports the common OOP paradigms.

                                What the difference really amounts to is that .NET and C# are what you'd get if you asked a C++ programmer to design a C-Like managed language with OOP paradigms and the compatibility with C inside the language wasn't a requirement. Java on the other hand is what you get when you have a control freak doing the designing, which I suppose is fine for the guy with OCD, but as someone who feels at home in C++ writing in Java is hell, whereas in C# I feel just at home, but until Qyoto comes properly online I wouldn't really consider writing GUI desktop applications in it (although I might look at Xwt if it gets a Qt backend) mostly because I run KDE and GTK3 themeing is broken if I use one of the theme engines that makes GTK look like the rest of my KDE/Qt applications, but works fine but looks out of place and ugly if I use adiwata or another actual GTK3 theme.

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