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  • #16
    The problem is that most C# programms aren't realy portable cause of P/invokes or WFM.
    Another thing that is a bit annyoing is that Winforms look like crap.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by elanthis View Post
      Anyone claiming that C# is a "bad" Java clone has probably not actually been using any modern incarnation of it. Clone? Sure, no argument. "Bad" clone? wat. Java has if anything been playing catch-up with C#, and rather poorly at that.

      If you're comparing C#1.2 and .NET1.1, sure, they're pretty cruddy, but those were obsolete like 8 years ago. I can have intelligible conversations with human beings younger than C#2.0.
      LOL, i remember back in the day looking at J# - i think that was in .net1, although it wouldn't surprise me if there was a .net 2 version as well. It really was a clone of Java, to a degree that I'm almost surprised they weren't sued over it. No one bothered to use it over c#, though.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Thaodan View Post
        The problem is that most C# programms aren't realy portable cause of P/invokes or WFM.
        Another thing that is a bit annyoing is that Winforms look like crap.
        Xwt will give native appearance on supported platforms (Currently Mac, Windows and GTK).

        https://github.com/mono/xwt

        It is kind of new though. I hope it catches on.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
          C# brought a whole lot of c++ like functionality to the language that java did not allow. Things like generics, enums, structs and stack types instead of using the heap for everything, function pointers, operator overloading, non-brain dead event handling, much easier integration with c/c++ native libs, the ability to compile your programs to native code instead of VM, and about 1000 other niceties that java has been slowly trying to catch up with over the last decade.
          This is actually why I preferred Java because to me it was a much more elegant and well, "purer" OOP language. It read clean and crisp without a whole bunch of convoluted stuff crapping up the code all over the place. And I never felt that the language didn't give me the ability to do what I wanted, and relatively intuitively. Ever since around v1.5ish they started adding a lot of those "niceties" you're talking about and frankly I thought it really mucked up the language. That's about when I started to lose interest in Java.

          It's a preference thing, of course. I prefer a consistent form to a bunch of random, haphazard constructs that were supposedly designed to make my life easier. (IOW, for me, keeping the functional aspect of the language straight is a better benefit than allowing me to write an iterative loop w/ fewer characters.) Or, to put it more plainly, I have OCD.

          The other big downside of C# is that it tied you to Windows, which to me was a huge downside, and pretty much a non-starter for server-side code. But I think for desktop-type applications this would be a large benefit, and especially w/ the native Windows look.


          I'm not much of a code snob (I'll even do PHP, which is an awful language)... but I really can't stand what they've done to Java.

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          • #20
            The other aspect of it all was that C# was a reaction to Java at a time when the power struggle for dominance and coinciding politics was really predominant in the industry. Microsoft was just coming out of the big monopoly controversy. I guess I was a *nix guy at the time. (I wouldn't really consider myself that; I just didn't think *nix platforms should be excluded from the public conscious.) I really couldn't figure out why developers were throwing their eggs into the Microsoft-exclusive basket.

            Here with Java we finally had a cross-platform tech that could have really shaken up the industry and............... nope. C#. Pretty much solidified Microsoft's monopoly.

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            • #21
              http://www.slideshare.net/migueldeic...y-space-2013/9 - Disable GC whenever you want .. try that with Java!!
              http://www.slideshare.net/migueldeic...-space-2013/20 - Experimenting with cool different programming paradign ... have that freshness with Java? Nope!
              http://www.slideshare.net/migueldeic...-space-2013/49 - Generate assembler from high level language .... Java? Pfffffffffff

              There are many many many more examples. Mono/C# is cool and passionate, Java is boring and rotten. Java is not even open source - if you are running anything serious you are gonna install Oracle Java anyway as OpenJDK is lacking.

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              • #22
                Awesome!

                C# and .NET are awesome!
                As someone who has developed in both C# and Java, I can say that C# is superior to Java. You write much less code, and things are so much nicer.
                Also the .NET framework is much nicer than Java Class Library (JCL).
                And Visual Studio beats Eclipse out of the water.
                Also stuff like nuget is really nice.

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                • #23
                  Java and JDK are awesome!
                  As someone who has developed in both C# and Java, I can say that Java is superior to C#. You write
                  much less code, and things are so much nicer.
                  Also the Java Class Library (JCL) is much nicer than the .NET framework.
                  And Eclipse beats Visual Studio out of the water.
                  Also stuff like Java FX is really nice.





                  FTFY

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                  • #24
                    C# might be a great language, however I'll probably never use it. I can't feel safe using Mono on Linux - not after the years-long campaign Microsoft held (and still hold) against Linux vendors.

                    MS claimed that Linux is violating its patents and threatened to sue. How can I be assured they won't use some bogus C# patent to extort me? On the client side nobody uses C# anyway, and there are Python/Ruby/Jave etc on the server side. Why take a risk?

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                    • #25
                      I prefer Java because it's less convoluted than C#, easier and more elegant and purer OOP . Hoewever, the strength of C# doesn't lie in the language itself but in it's .NET library. In java you usually have to draw upon third-party (in most cases open source) libraries to do the same.

                      Language wise, I've never found anything that I can't do in Java with it's simpler and easier to remember language constructs. The only thing I miss in Java is an easier way to interface with native libraries. I've never liked the JNI.

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                      • #26
                        > MS claimed that Linux is violating its patents and threatened to sue.

                        True!

                        Mono is useful for Microsoft to avoid anti-trust trials and claim it's "multiplatform", but...
                        can you use mono? and your friends? and your customers?

                        Beware of Microsoft's "property". It is patented.

                        So, who really cares if it's theoretically any good, when legally it is a threat for you?

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                        • #27
                          Funny too see, how this quickly escalated into just another Java vs. C# (offtopic-)thread.

                          Btw. how many of you actually develop & deploy larger applications, which have to run seemlessly on several platforms at the same time? The amount of pro-C# voices here tells me, that it isn't the majority.

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                          • #28
                            Too many replies at my post to bother replying to them all.
                            When I said crappy java clone, I was referring directly to the mono platform, not microsoft's .NET.
                            Mono is EXTREMELY obviously part of an Embrace, Extend, Extinguish move by Microsoft. It's classic Microsoft.

                            Originally posted by alexThunder View Post
                            Funny too see, how this quickly escalated into just another Java vs. C# (offtopic-)thread.

                            Btw. how many of you actually develop & deploy larger applications, which have to run seemlessly on several platforms at the same time? The amount of pro-C# voices here tells me, that it isn't the majority.
                            The company I worked at did, and by extension, I did. I'd go as far to say that unless someone like Jon Skeet is browsing phoronix right now, I have more knowledge/experience with the .NET platform than anyone else posting on this site.
                            mono is crap, and it's on purpose.

                            I'd wager money that there's some microsoft employees posting on phoronix.

                            p.s. C# is an okay language by itself, it's only great when combined with VS and tools like resharper which push it ahead of the competition productivity-wise, which is what you want when you have dozens of codemonkeys that you need to work fast.
                            Last edited by peppercats; 08-21-2013, 09:00 AM.

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                            • #29
                              Miguel de Icaza is a fu*king moron and a profi troll. Case closed.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by peppercats View Post
                                The company I worked at did, and by extension, I did.
                                Yes, I noticed. It's cool how you can easily determine, whether someone actually knows, what he's talking about or not in IT related stuff, just by the way how he talks about it.

                                Originally posted by peppercats View Post
                                p.s. C# is an okay language by itself, it's only great when combined with VS and tools like resharper which push it ahead of the competition productivity-wise, which is what you want when you have dozens of codemonkeys that you need to work fast.
                                I was about writing the same in a more detailed way, but that pretty much sums it up. Still, I wouldn't have called it great

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