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Linus Torvalds Calls For More Linux Kernel Patches

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  • #11
    Originally posted by lordmetroid View Post
    Linus is simply following the proud Finnish tradition of Management by Perkele.
    Learning something new every single day.

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    • #12
      Obligatory

      https://xkcd.com/303/

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      • #13
        Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
        I don't think that really had anything to do with it.

        I disagree with her point, and don't think this is going anywhere, but it's certainly something i've heard from many men as well who linus pisses off and in particular i bet there could be legal issues at play.

        But attacking someone based on their gender or religion, etc. seems wrong to me.
        Don't worry, no-one's attacking anyone's gender here or anything. It was just stated that this makes a live example of what could happen when a woman wanders too far away from the kitchen.

        Here's the original mailing list discussion BTW, if someone didn't read it : http://marc.info/?l=linux-kernel&m=137390362508794&w=2

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        • #14
          One-sided discussion

          Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
          I don't think that really had anything to do with it.

          I disagree with her point, and don't think this is going anywhere, but it's certainly something i've heard from many men as well who linus pisses off and in particular i bet there could be legal issues at play.

          But attacking someone based on their gender or religion, etc. seems wrong to me.
          I agree with you on the point of not differentiating gender, religion and etc., but:
          If you read her blog, you would know that she herself promotes gender policies with clear tendency for non-neutrality. For example:

          Hacking the Gender Gap
          Linux Kernel Internships for Women
          Preventing the Violence Against Women

          It would be perfectly fine if she just had given her statement, but on the wave of public attention, she highlights herself for being one of few female Kernel developers and actually gives good reasons for the attacks on her, trying to force her views on all of us.

          I'm obsessed this discussion is so unilateral and predetermined.

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          • #15
            On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 8:52 AM, Sarah Sharp
            <sarah.a.sharp@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
            >
            > I'll roar
            > right back, louder, for all the people who lose their voice when they
            > get yelled at by top maintainers. I won't be the nice girl anymore.

            That's the spirit.

            Greg has taught you well. You have controlled your fear. Now, release
            your anger. Only your hatred can destroy me.

            Come to the dark side, Sarah. We have cookies.

            Linus
            My favorite

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            • #16
              Yeah, first of all, this is getting derailed into really awful territory. Regardless of what your opinion on Sarah Sharp, calling her names because she happens to be female is not cool. I've already seen a couple of tech sites write of this incident with a subtext of "see, this is what happens when we let icky girls near our kernel!" This is just plain awful behaviour and it perpetuates the image of Linux users as antisocial nerds whose brains explode at the sight of a woman.

              Linus states his opinion bluntly and directly, and that's cool. That's good. But Sarah also has a right to express her opinion - bluntly and directly, if she so chooses. The funny thing is, when Linus is being blunt and direct, people praise him for it (as do I), but when Sarah Sharp is being blunt and direct about her opinion, these certain people call her a "bitch" or whatever. Double standard much?

              The internet, computers, kernels, coding - none of these are things that require testicles. There are women who are better at writing code than 99% of the guys posting here. And as some of the comments even in this thread show, sexism is still an issue even among Linux coders, and pretending that the problem doesn't exist doesn't make it go away.

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              • #17
                What is a neutral discussion?

                Originally posted by dee. View Post
                , and pretending that the problem doesn't exist doesn't make it go away.
                We have to identify the problem on her side in the first place.
                I don't have a problem with her being a girl and expressing her mindset openly (like Linus does).
                My problem with her is that she brings in gender policies with her statements.

                You may not see it openly, but from the first post on, she appears to be a do-gooder and moralist, convinced of her superiority.
                The slight trend to address the readers as "guys" and herself as the "good girl" is just provoking.

                In her attempt to make things appear more professional by "banning" the direct and harsh language she proved herself to be unprofessional in bringing in the gender question in the first place.

                It's easy to blame the developers for it (they're mostly men, so it's a gender-discrimination), but in fact, there is no need for a specific gender in the LKML in the first place.

                For me, a neutral discussion on a mailing list has to satisfy one condition: The reader should not be able to identify an author's gender without looking at the mail-header/name. It's that simple.

                Concerning Sarah, she doesn't satisfy this condition in any way. She could've been smarter.
                Last edited by frign; 07-18-2013, 06:15 PM.

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                • #18
                  Originally posted by frign View Post
                  We have to identify the problem on her side in the first place.
                  I don't have a problem with her being a girl and expressing her mindset openly (like Linus does).
                  My problem with her is that she brings in gender policies with her statements.
                  Example? What are these gender policies? I read the links you posted earlier, and they seemed to basically amount to "some guys rape women, we need to make them stop doing that". What's so wrong with that? How does it have anything to do with her as a kernel developer?

                  You may not see it openly, but from the first post on, she appears to be a do-gooder and moralist, convinced of her superiority.
                  The slight trend to address the readers as "guys" and herself as the "good girl" is just provoking.
                  Inference is not equal to implication.

                  In her attempt to make things appear more professional by "banning" the direct and harsh language she proved herself to be unprofessional in bringing in the gender question in the first place.
                  Show me where she has brought in "the gender question" with regards to the kernel development. Also, what is "the gender question" anyway?

                  It's easy to blame the developers for it (they're mostly men, so it's a gender-discrimination), but in fact, there is no need for a specific gender in the LKML in the first place.

                  For me, a neutral discussion on a mailing list has to satisfy one condition: The reader should not be able to identify an author's gender without looking at the mail-header/name. It's that simple.

                  Concerning Sarah, she doesn't satisfy this condition in any way. She could've been smarter.
                  Show me where Sarah has asked to be treated differently because of her gender.

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                  • #19
                    Originally posted by Ramiliez View Post
                    My favorite
                    Thanks! That one just made my day

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                    • #20
                      Originally posted by frign View Post
                      I agree with you on the point of not differentiating gender, religion and etc., but:
                      If you read her blog, you would know that she herself promotes gender policies with clear tendency for non-neutrality. For example:

                      Hacking the Gender Gap
                      Linux Kernel Internships for Women
                      Preventing the Violence Against Women

                      It would be perfectly fine if she just had given her statement, but on the wave of public attention, she highlights herself for being one of few female Kernel developers and actually gives good reasons for the attacks on her, trying to force her views on all of us.

                      I'm obsessed this discussion is so unilateral and predetermined.
                      I'm not interested enough in this topic to read all the links and fully educate myself, so it's possible that you have a point and she is starting a gender war here.

                      But ultimately, attacking her gender because she said you were going to attack her gender seems like a really poor response to me. (And promoting opportunities for women is a lot different than attacking men - which would be the equivalent of what i think this is turning into).

                      If you have a valid, non-gender specific point - and i think that we do - then we should make that. Going on about how women should go back to the kitchens is just kind of proving her point, IMO. Even if i do find those jokes to be funny.
                      Last edited by smitty3268; 07-18-2013, 06:43 PM.

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