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  • #31
    Oh, and another thing... I'd love to support artists and creators that I like. In fact I do it all the time. I buy games, I buy downloadable music even when it's offered in such a way that I could just as easily download it for free... to the best of my limited possibilities, I try to support the content creators whose work I appreciate.

    But then sometimes I run into a situation like this (for example): there's a comic that I want to read. I go to the only place selling it, but the international shipping costs are stupidly high, making it infeasible to order that way. I look into electronic versions, which are all behind a web-based flash reader - talk about DRM: they don't even let me download it as ebooks. At this point I still grit my teeth and pay the amount to read the comics with their e-reader, hoping they'll never bail out with my paid content - and what do I get: after paying for the content, buying a couple of issues, they inform me that they've made a mistake, that the content I've bought shouldn't be available in my country, and that I can't buy any further issues of that comic. After some back and forth with the support they agreed to make the comics I already bought available to read for me, which was a nice gesture, but I still couldn't get any more new issues.

    So at that point, I feel I've gone as far as I can to support the creators. There I am, ready and willing to throw money at them, even going so far as to allow them to potentially rip me off with their online DRM, and they don't want to take my money because of some imaginary lines drawn in sand. FFS, it's the 21st century, we live in a global village, get over it already! So at that point, YES, I will torrent those comics. How would the creators benefit from me NOT seeing their content, if they give me no opportunity to pay for it in any case?

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    • #32
      We can choose NOT to deal with DRM by boycotting commecial content

      Originally posted by Sonadow View Post
      Brutal truth indeed.

      If we are going to deal with DRM in our lives, the least they can do is to standardize its implementation.
      We can certainly have a DRM-free internet, by choosing not to use DRM'ed service, and never to pay for music or movies. Lots of people stopped buying music after the RIAA lawsuits. I prefer to tune out Hollywood these days. I use the Internet for user-created content, and never attempt to monetize any of my news reports and videos. The net connects just fine to this free, non-DRM content.

      I have literally never seen a DRM'd file other than an old-school CD or DVD, long cracked. One thing I like about Linux is keeping DRM support OUT, using crackware to defeat DVD encryption, and no iTunes, no Netflix, or any of the rest of that paid content I want nothing to do with. If it ain't pirate or free, it's not allowed on my drives.

      I will block all known license servers in /etc/hosts if if becomes difficult to exclude DRM support from browsers. Flash supports DRM, but you can break that support by not installing HAL. I have never encountered a DRM's flash file, due to my non-acceptance of paid content.

      I will certainly remove any DRM support plugins if firefox ever ships them, or stay with a pre-DRM version. This is just like the Windows users who refused to "upgrade" to Vista,7, or 8 because they didn't want DRM.

      We all have our own perferences, but I prefer a free and open net, and support it by refusing all paid content and programs. Netflix, Hulu, I don't even want them. if others want DRM support, just make sure it can be disabled by those who do not want to be tracked!

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Sonadow View Post
        That's why specialized appliances like intelligent Blu-ray players with access to online media content exist.
        If there's a specialised appliance that can get any Blu-ray content I have to be displayed in a nice X (or Wayland) window on my desktop, I'd be quite content. But there isn't.

        Originally posted by Dnyarri View Post
        And please stop thinking that web needs content industry. It's the other way around (if you ask me). They would bring content to web with, or without DRM. If they wouldn't they'd lose money.
        They are already losing money because they use DRM in the first place. So thinking that they would allow more content on the web regardless would imply that Hollywood is smart. But clearly that's not the case... I don't see the situation changing from what it is now.

        Originally posted by peppepz View Post
        No, it won't... this will make Netflix available on Android, possibly only on unrooted devices. By balkanizing Linux even more, this will make the chances of getting supported web video on Linux even more remote.
        Hmm, yea, I see that their standardisation solution is not quite up to spec to begin with. So you're most likely right on this.

        Originally posted by dee. View Post
        Oh, and another thing... I'd love to support artists and creators that I like. In fact I do it all the time. I buy games, I buy downloadable music even when it's offered in such a way that I could just as easily download it for free... to the best of my limited possibilities, I try to support the content creators whose work I appreciate.
        Exactly. The issue with DRM is that it doesn't work, for one, which means that it doesn't help the authors. Everything so far got cracked, to one extent or another, regardless of how many layers of DRM were added. On the contrary, it hurts the authors, because it turns away legitimate users. It's always awfully inconvenient, and in some cases (Blu-ray on Linux), makes the content outright impossible to use. I'd love to buy Blu-ray movies, to support the authors, but I outright am not allowed to because of misguided paranoia. It feels like the legitimate users are the ones treated like criminals, while the actual pirates enjoy all the content hassle-free. That's absurd. At this point, the most fair thing to do would be to go to a Blu-ray store, buy a Blu-ray of choice, then just after that ceremoniously break the disc and throw it in the trash bin, and use a pirated copy afterwards...

        And if they actually wanted to do something that makes sure that people buy it legitimately instead of pirating things, then they should provide additional services, not try to restrict you. The most basic example would be to allow to register your copy on the creator's website, which would then give you credit for being a legitimate user (a banner saying that you supported the authors or such), which would then act as a public proof or purchase and thus a bragging right. Additional things would be to allow registered users to ask the authors some questions directly, or allow access to polls or discussions about their next planned content etc. That's something you can't pirate, and something that would be worth buying a legitimate copy for in the first place.

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        • #34
          musicians and actors are like software developers. They shouldn't be paid for what they produce, just praised.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by asdx
            Deal with it.
            Maybe I should find out where you are working, then stealing your work and shout you in the face: "Deal with it!"
            Wouldn't be funny, wouldn't it? So why do you think that other people should deal with it?

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            • #36
              Originally posted by boast View Post
              musicians and actors are like software developers. They shouldn't be paid for what they produce, just praised.
              What a non-sense. I know an actor, nothing big, only some small roles in German films. Would you like to explain why you think that this person shouldn't get paid for days of work? And how do you think those people, including software developers, pay their bills and buy their food? From your praise?

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              • #37
                Originally posted by adriankx View Post
                I live in a country where every computer that doesnt come with Windows OS preloaded get 1 pirated copy installed by someone. Not to mention game movies and audio content.Private torrents are full with almost everything u need at a free cost . Like it or not they will never be able to restrict sharing on internet nor they will make money on every ripped movie found on torrents. Thank god we have Russia and hackers and crackers will still pirate everything that moves. So for me everything work on linux couse i dont use or buy disks off any kind when i can get it all free via torrents. Sharing is freedom power belongs to the people!
                If you are pirating Linux warez then enjoy your pwnage. If you are going to pirate software pirate Windows warez and run them in Wine.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by adriankx View Post
                  I live in a country where every computer that doesnt come with Windows OS preloaded get 1 pirated copy installed by someone. Not to mention game movies and audio content.Private torrents are full with almost everything u need at a free cost . Like it or not they will never be able to restrict sharing on internet nor they will make money on every ripped movie found on torrents. Thank god we have Russia and hackers and crackers will still pirate everything that moves. So for me everything work on linux couse i dont use or buy disks off any kind when i can get it all free via torrents. Sharing is freedom power belongs to the people!
                  I am strongly anti-DRM, but you need to understand that DRM was and is successful explicitly due to your unfair (to content producers) behavior. It agonizes exactly like virus/antivirus, security/insecurity or owner/thief cases. If no one takes goods without payment, there are no need for guards; if thieves become aggressive, so become guards.

                  One of the proofs, is that some DRM encryption is referred as "freebie-blocker" till its cracked. Its made explicitly to make immature girls and boys, like you, ask their parents for money.

                  There are people who understand; and there are people who get DRM prescribed in form of the law sooner or later. The problem is - both live in same country, and people who understand don't want their fair use rights to be cut by DRM, which grows as result of actions of second group type.

                  As of Russia, for example in Russia, there is this Nikita Mikhalkov idiot, who recently was legally allowed to charge every sold empty media (HDD, CD, DVD, SSD etc) for piracy probability of copyright. Also, hardly anyone ever produces crack to protection just for fun, most integrate a payload (botnet says hello), which should currently also be WINE-aware.

                  Say, did you stole your hardware too or was it torrented?

                  So, ask your parents for money or grow up please, because you are helping DRM grow and establish itself for example in HTML.
                  Last edited by brosis; 05-11-2013, 08:17 PM.

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                  • #39
                    I think, this should also be noted - How a DRM can ruin game experience and rating from 9.5/10 to 4/10.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Sonadow View Post
                      Can you think of a better way to stop people from pirating content?

                      Even humble indie bundle games get pirated.
                      And why is drm gonna change that ?

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by asdx
                        How long until we get pirated Linux games from Steam?

                        aka hl2, l4d, etc.
                        You have heard that steam has allot of new users ?
                        From Russia.

                        Drm is not the way. Reasonable prices and easy to get are.

                        http://thepiratebay.sx/search/half%2...20linux/0/99/0

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                        • #42
                          No law requires consuming Hollywood/paid content at all, pirate or otherwise

                          [QUOTE=brosis;330441]There are people who understand; and there are people who get DRM prescribed in form of the law sooner or later. The problem is - both live in same country, and people who understand don't want their fair use rights to be cut by DRM, which grows as result of actions of second group type.[QUOTE]

                          There is another option: There is no law requiring you to consume commercial content AT ALL. Just like you can run Linux instead of pirating Windows, you can watch non-monetized, user-created content instead of Hollywood movies. You can play 0ad instead of a similar game bought from Steam. I'm not saying Linux should try to force out Steam, I'm just saying you do in fact have a choice.

                          There is even music created by artists who are just as good as anyone who ever had a recording contract, but could never get one. In fact, the vast majority of all music and video (including work never distributed at all) is created by private people with no realistic option of ever monetizing it anyway, created for reasons other than for money. Some of those artists are damned good, ask ANY small-time musician to play you a recording of some virtuoso he knows from the band scene. I've seen guitarists who could play like Yngwie Malmsteen playing in basements!

                          The more they screw with fair use, the more people will turn their backs on their entire industry and all of its products, just like the growing movement
                          to cancel cable TV and disconnect from pay TV bills. Enough harassment, and people will cancel their online subscriptions, cancel cable, even stop going to the movies if theaters want to search belongings or something. If I cannot have a copy of a song, I want to ensure that I never, ever hear it, meaning I would have to turn off the radio. Much of that sort of thing and Hollywood would roll over and sink beneath the waves.

                          Preventing piracy does NOT ensure revenue, they'd have to make it illegal to distribute your own music without a contract, or to distribute video from your own camera without going through a Hollywood studio. They can't watermark content they don't own.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by brosis View Post
                            The difference is, if you ain't popular and unique, your "hard work" does not interest ANYONE, especially if you restrict it yourself how to distribute it.
                            It obviously does interest people, otherwise there would be nobody pirating it. People see value in it, but that doesn't detract from the fact that if it is possible to get it for free then they see that as preferable to paying for it.

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                            • #44
                              Am I the only one here that smells sabotage here? There are certain threads in this post by multiple people that seem to be designed.

                              Maybe its just my imagination. I tend to look at things from a security point of view. This thread has several posts that are obvious flags.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by elanthis View Post
                                Fuck that. Games cost millions of dollars to make, as do movies. TV shows can also be quite expensive. Music isn't free to record. There is value in that if everyone's lazy freeloading worthless ass doesn't pay for it, _it won't get fucking made in the first place_. There is no need for value-add to "pay for this or just don't consume it." There's only assholes who steal other people's hard work and pretend they have a God-given right to consume whatever media whenever they want even if it cost 200 people 3 years of their lives to make. The content has value - either you want to consume it and you pay the asked-for price or you don't pay and then you live your life without ever experiencing the content just like millions upon millions of other people manage to do just fine. Piracy is purely the domain of self-entitled douchebags who want things they haven't earned or worked for. DRM might not be the answer, but "add more value to an $80,000,000 title so I won't freeload" is fucking moronic.
                                I totally agree.

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