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  • Originally posted by Vim_User View Post
    You mean like with the background check for gun purchases in the USA, where the lobbyists prevented those checks against the will of a very large percentage of the population? That didn't work very well, I would think.
    Unrelated but I have to jump in on this one- this is complete and total fabrication brought out by the establishment media and administration.

    1) The percentage of the population supporting additional gun control (of any kind) was around 50%.
    2) The USA is a Republic, not a Democracy. The will of the majority cannot steal the rights of the minority.
    3) The only "gun lobby" in this country ARE the citizens of the USA. It was because of thousands of phone calls, petitions and threats to vote the politicians out of office that stopped gun control. We vote for the people who support gun rights, and vote against those who are against gun rights.
    4) The "Background checks" bill is a LIE. The bill in reality required the registration of firearms and that was unacceptable to a populace that was increasingly skeptical of their government. Regardless of what you believe, the DHS purchase of 2 billion bullets, 7000 armored personnel carriers didn't help win confidence.
    5) No statistics in the US were in favor of any new gun control
    6) None of the proposed legislation would have had any effect on any of the recent mass shootings, and the people knew it.

    There is a reason that the Obama administration, who had a seemingly unassailable political prowess ran into a 3 ft thick concrete wall on this, and that is because the people did not agree with their viewpoints. The administration thought they could shamelessly use victims of tragedy to accomplish a political agenda that truly mattered to the population. There's Boston, LA, and Chicago, but then there's the REST of America that doesn't believe in the state and will not as readily give up their rights. Think what you may of guns, but to position gun control schemes as a just cause thwarted by lobbyists is not also grossly incorrect, but it is dismissive of the massive grass roots effort, by the people, to kill it in the senate.
    Last edited by kazetsukai; 05-20-2013, 07:51 PM.

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    • Originally posted by kazetsukai View Post
      Unrelated but I have to jump in on this one- this is complete and total fabrication brought out by the establishment media and administration.
      4) The "Background checks" bill is a LIE. The bill in reality required the registration of firearms and that was unacceptable to a populace that was increasingly skeptical of their government. Regardless of what you believe, the DHS purchase of 2 billion bullets, 7000 armored personnel carriers didn't help win confidence.
      Citation please, show me where this is a 'LIE'.
      6) None of the proposed legislation would have had any effect on any of the recent mass shootings, and the people knew it.
      Citation needed

      Also, consider Australia. They have effectively banned carrying loaded weapons unless you're hunting or at a shooting range, and violent gun crime has been reduced dramatically.
      There has been a national registry and there have been background checks on all arms purchases for years without any ill effects.
      And before you cite what the NRA babbles about with unrelated increases in crime in other areas, read this article about how they cherrypicked those statistics.
      https://theconversation.com/faking-w...me-stats-11678

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      • Originally posted by intellivision View Post
        Citation please, show me where this is a 'LIE'.
        I'm not your babysitter. Do your own search, it isn't hard. You may merely examine the bill itself, which is public record.
        Notably, a report by the FBI also showed that "background checks" (for private sales) would only be effective when combined with registration. Also, not hard to find. You're just not looking for it, you're looking for counter-proof and finding it on MSNBC.

        Originally posted by intellivision View Post
        Also, consider Australia.
        I might as well consider Japan, which never had a gun culture to begin with. Australia traded "gun violence" for non-gun violence and rape. Why don't you consider Switzerland? The answer to this one is obvious: The US is not Australia. What works there, doesn't necessarily work here, and we have both a tradition and right to gun ownership. A right which the state has no authority to regulate, regardless how how much they pretend they do. Again, we are a Republic.

        Originally posted by intellivision View Post
        And before you cite what the NRA babbles about with unrelated increases in crime in other areas, read this article about how they cherrypicked those statistics.
        I don't use NRA sources, I use what they use for sources, which are FBI crime statistics IN AMERICA. Try comparing Chicago (handguns are effectively banned) to Austin, there's no contest.

        And again, regardless of what the sub-human politician scumbags in the White House, or the victims of tragedy they paraded on television think about guns, the people of America obviously disagree. If you want gun control, do it at the state level where it belongs, don't do it on a federal or international level. Background checks are already in place and facilitated by NICS, which the government is known to abuse. America remains skeptical about government in general.

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        • Originally posted by kazetsukai View Post
          I'm not your babysitter. Do your own search, it isn't hard.
          You stated that the bill was a lie, which means the burden of proof is on you to show that it is a lie.

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          • And now we're on to the gun debate. Next up will be the fulfilment of Godwin's Law.

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            • I'll just repeat what I already said... It's the same with ALL commodities. If people want it they will get it one way or another. The very best way to create a black market is to regulate that commodity. The very best way to kill a black market is the deregulate that commodity. Whether it be guns, music, drugs, art, whatever....

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              • Originally posted by archibald View Post
                You stated that the bill was a lie, which means the burden of proof is on you to show that it is a lie.
                I simply don't care... your previous responses are telling: You've already made up your mind on the issue.

                Originally posted by duby229 View Post
                I'll just repeat what I already said... It's the same with ALL commodities. If people want it they will get it one way or another. The very best way to create a black market is to regulate that commodity. The very best way to kill a black market is the deregulate that commodity.
                Neither Congress, nor the States have the authority to regulate guns in the US, but that aside: The goal was never to fight crime/black markets to begin with, its about control. Its about repeating the lies like a drumbeat until the uneducated populace buys it., and then the government can get away with whatever they want. While this isn't anything new the amount of corruption in the US government has exploded to absurd levels in the last three administrations, especially this one.

                The drumbeat of the lying establishment knows no extremes. The insanity in government is now fueling efforts to blame the Oklahoma tornadoes on climate-change "naysayers", "deniers" and "polluters", in other words those who don't buy the lies aren't a part of the multi-billion dollar scam that is "global warming". These criminals will take on any issue today that avoids them having to deal with the real issues at hand- kicking the can down the road on the economy and crony capitalism rampant in big pharma and big food. It breaks common sense! Try to convince yourself that gay marriage, regardless of what you think on the issue, is more important than putting together a sane budget. TRY! These people know no shame! They'll drive us to civil war or worse! Stop the naive delusion that these people are actually trying to fight crime!

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