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  • Originally posted by duby229 View Post
    And I'm not talking about build modularity, but about package modularity.
    Trying to get Gnome depend on systemd isn't really talking for having an open mind to neither kind of modularity. https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desk.../msg00427.html

    Comment


    • Originally posted by duby229 View Post
      I havent changed topics at all. You just seem to be incapable of comprehending the topic that I'm on.

      No the eudev fork was made from a version of udev prior to it being merged to systemd. And I'm not talking about build modularity, but about package modularity. But since you don't seem to know what I'm saying then there isnt really much point in repeating myself again is there.

      If you arent capable of understanding what I said the first and second times, then there isnt any point in saying it again a third time.
      Right, not changing topics. Calling people stupid while pretty much showing off these arguments: idiotic.

      Recall that you referred to a question. In which I replied you didn't ask one? Seems you're silent on that one. I asked if maybe you meant modularity as you never asked a question. As you never asked a question, what the fuck do you expect if I don't understand you?

      Regarding modularity: Who cares if it is build time, runtime or package modularity. Really: why do you want this.

      I already explained how it is idiotic to think that splitting udev and systemd is good. Now reply with something technical. Not with: OMG at one point udev and systemd weren't merged. Yeah, they were merged because of the overlapping code. This was explained in the merge announcement. Did you read that?

      Please educate yourself before calling people stupid and pretend you're the one who is not. Makes you look like a wanker if people here have to spoon fed answers to you.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by sjukfan View Post
        Trying to get Gnome depend on systemd isn't really talking for having an open mind to neither kind of modularity. https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desk.../msg00427.html
        Before anyone gets any ideas, systemd is not an external depedency of GNOME. What has happened is that we standardized on some systemd APIs. But actually, the sooner we can depend on systemd the better.

        Comment


        • To address the point "one init done right instead of many Distro-specific solutions in order to get unified experience":
          Back when there was no solution to the kde bug "spinning DVD for each new file manager window" and looked over to gnome. Liked it, despite that gstreamer driven apps started to produce extreme crackling sound on some of my videos. As I was already on the way to test new things I wanted to try systemd - maybe it does some "magic" when loading drivers.
          It did not.
          But while on systemd I just wanted to play. Was harder then I had thought. systemd itself comes with a quite small amount of service files. There is the great Ach Wiki, where you can find plenty of information. But it did not work. Arch uses some own service files. The wiki uses them (as deps). So in order to setup e.g. Auto login (+ startgnome) you need to try to find all those solutions done by arch. And many still would not work
          While looking for those service files I found some similar named service files from Gentoo or other distros. Guess what - not compatible.

          Concerning the crackling sound (like someone blows into a microphone...): it was pulseaudio (or the pulse alsa plugin, don't know). Uninstalling them instantly fixed my issues.
          -> This was the last time I tried pulseaudio! On the way to pulseaudios bugtracker I found this: http://www.pulseaudio.org/ticket/606 - no idea how to report bugs...

          After uninstalling pulseaudio I apparently had no sound anymore. And - there is no "alsasound.service" or "sound.service" - no idea where to get it from. Yeah. Google... And get something incompatible, again
          Changed init from systemd back to openrc (grub.conf) and now udevadm won't start xD
          Uninstalling systemd fixed that issue.

          I have learnt
          * pulseaudio is not the promised land.
          * pulseaudio has bugs.
          * No ieda where to report them
          * systemd is one solution for all, wait - no
          * systemd services are distro specific and NOT compatible with each other
          * Every single distro needs to write their own service files.
          finally:
          * Gnome3 depends on pulseaudio, so this was the last time I tried Gnome3.

          And many "great" projects always were quite short term solutions:
          You remember hal? DeviceKit? udisks1 also seems to have not been so good - it is widely incompatible with udisks2.
          I really fear it will get the same mess with systemd. In some years he will find design flaws and replace it with BootKit...

          Comment


          • Originally posted by bkor View Post
            Right, not changing topics. Calling people stupid while pretty much showing off these arguments: idiotic.

            Recall that you referred to a question. In which I replied you didn't ask one? Seems you're silent on that one. I asked if maybe you meant modularity as you never asked a question. As you never asked a question, what the fuck do you expect if I don't understand you?

            Regarding modularity: Who cares if it is build time, runtime or package modularity. Really: why do you want this.

            I already explained how it is idiotic to think that splitting udev and systemd is good. Now reply with something technical. Not with: OMG at one point udev and systemd weren't merged. Yeah, they were merged because of the overlapping code. This was explained in the merge announcement. Did you read that?

            Please educate yourself before calling people stupid and pretend you're the one who is not. Makes you look like a wanker if people here have to spoon fed answers to you.
            Who did I call stupid? Quote me please. Oh I asked the question. Maybe not to you specifically but it was asked and due to your responses it equally applies to you.

            Theres no point in making shit up. It doesnt help advance your argument.

            EDIT: You are -not- going to change my mind. I don't have any problems with systemd existing as long as it remains optional. It isnt the paradise that LP fans make it out to be. The majority of it is bloatware and whats left isnt even half as functional as what it replaces.
            Last edited by duby229; 03-28-2013, 04:08 PM.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by duby229 View Post
              Who did I call stupid? Quote me please. Oh I asked the question. Maybe not to you specifically but it was asked and due to your responses it equally applies to you.

              Theres no point in making shit up. It doesnt help advance your argument.

              EDIT: You are -not- going to change my mind. I don't have any problems with systemd existing as long as it remains optional. It isnt the paradise that LP fans make it out to be. The majority of it is bloatware and whats left isnt even half as functional as what it replaces.
              Right, you replied to me saying answer the question. Yet you didn't ask a question to me. So why the fuck do you reply to me saying that I should've answered some question. Somewhat retarded behaviour.

              Illogical shit I've seen from you:
              - Gentoo should follow upstream
              - Gentoo should split up systemd package into udev and systemd package
              - Distro specific changes in Gentoo is bad
              - Systemd should make a Gentoo-specific change

              Making shit up / quote me please:

              Originally posted by duby229 View Post
              So I take that to mean that systemd is a risky experiment... OK, I can dig it.

              The question then is why the hell are so many distro's so quick to adopt such a risky experiment? It seems like a wave of retardedness has overrun our world.
              It indeed was not stupid, you called people retarded. My god, that really refutes things. You really wonder why you get so aggressive responses, fuckwad?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by sjukfan View Post
                Trying to get Gnome depend on systemd isn't really talking for having an open mind to neither kind of modularity. https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desk.../msg00427.html
                As the user below mentioned. This wasnt about specifically depending on systemd, just on the systemd interface. Other things can provide the interface, but gnome wanted to depend upon the interface for stability and compatibility.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by bkor View Post
                  It indeed was not stupid, you called people retarded. My god, that really refutes things. You really wonder why you get so aggressive responses, fuckwad?
                  Cool it bkor, I was the one he was mainly arguing with and even I'm not getting that outraged. Take a breather.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Ericg View Post
                    Cool it bkor, I was the one he was mainly arguing with and even I'm not getting that outraged. Take a breather.
                    On Phoronix some troll regularly suggests that I should die. I complained about it but nothing happened. Aggressiveness seems to be how you should behave on this site, so I have adjusted my responses accordingly.

                    And while I am aggressive, I am factual. E.g. "bloatware" was just mentioned. This was also suggested by the eudev developers. Obviously, there has been various responses as you probably know. Kind of impressive how this person is repeating the eudev "arguments".

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by schmalzler View Post
                      I have learnt
                      * pulseaudio is not the promised land.
                      * pulseaudio has bugs.
                      * No ieda where to report them
                      * systemd is one solution for all, wait - no
                      * systemd services are distro specific and NOT compatible with each other
                      * Every single distro needs to write their own service files.
                      finally:
                      * Gnome3 depends on pulseaudio, so this was the last time I tried Gnome3.
                      Nothing is the promised land, its just the best we've got so far

                      Any piece of software that is advanced enough to do anything useful has bugs. No piece of software is free from that rule.

                      You can report them at either Freedesktop.org's bugtracker, or red hat's bugzilla. Both are considered "Upstream" for Pulseaudio.

                      Systemd's longterm goal IS one solution. Just like the kernel. We dont have multiple kernels: 1 for embedded, 1 for desktop and 1 for servers. No, we just have 1 kernel with compile time options.

                      Systemd services SHOULD be distro-agnostic UNLESS those distros have done something that prevents them from being so (SElinux or AppArmor comes to mind)

                      Service files are provided by upstream packages. Distro may modify them, but upstream is the original shipper.

                      That was Gnome's choice. They had their reasons. Dont like it, dont use it (as you did.)

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by bkor View Post
                        Right, you replied to me saying answer the question. Yet you didn't ask a question to me. So why the fuck do you reply to me saying that I should've answered some question. Somewhat retarded behaviour.

                        Illogical shit I've seen from you:
                        - Gentoo should follow upstream
                        - Gentoo should split up systemd package into udev and systemd package
                        - Distro specific changes in Gentoo is bad
                        - Systemd should make a Gentoo-specific change

                        Making shit up / quote me please:



                        It indeed was not stupid, you called people retarded. My god, that really refutes things. You really wonder why you get so aggressive responses, fuckwad?
                        How you gonna put words in my mouth? First of all gentoo -does- try to stay as close to upstream as it possibly can. That is one if its goals as a distribution. Second of all it should -not- be gentoo that splits udev from systemd into separate packages. It should be the upstream maintainers that make the split. They can still be developed together but they should be packaged independently.I have not idea what you mean by "Distro specific changes in Gentoo is bad" I never said that or anything like that. Obviously every distribution should try to adhere to upstream specifications whenever possible, but there are distro specific differences that are necessary. And I never said anything like "Systemd should make a Gentoo-specific change" Thats just more crap that you are blowing out your ass. And last but not least "you called people retarded" is total bullshit. I didnt call anyone retarded. I said that we have a wave of retardedness rolling over our world. Which is absolutely true from my perspective.

                        I think its time for you to stop making shit up and quote me next time you try to say I said something that I didnt say.

                        It isnt my fault that you can't understand the things that I said. Just because you arent capable of comprehending my opinions doesnt make them wrong.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by schmalzler View Post
                          I have learnt
                          * pulseaudio is not the promised land.
                          * pulseaudio has bugs.
                          * No ieda where to report them
                          * systemd is one solution for all, wait - no
                          * systemd services are distro specific and NOT compatible with each other
                          * Every single distro needs to write their own service files.
                          finally:
                          * Gnome3 depends on pulseaudio, so this was the last time I tried Gnome3.
                          Which year was that? Also, all your problems were due to misconfiguration. PulseAudio only crackles if there is a bug in the ALSA drivers, or if the daemon is incorrectly configured for your particular hardware. And systemd services are completely distribution-independent and shipped by upstream. The only problem here is that some projects are not transitioned to support systemd yet, or that the service files are removed by the distribution's packagers themselves. The same thing works the other way round - if a project does not ship OpenRC scripts, you can't start it using it, unless you write your own. In the case of systemd, writing unit files is easy enough that there are often several available versions - something you probably confused with them being distribution-specific. Also, if you use third-party service files, systemctl and journalctl will tell you exactly why a service failed to start. Then you can modify it accordingly. So, once again, all the problems you've had there was due to misconfiguration on your part.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by TAXI View Post
                            For a long time I'm wondering what's wrong with my setup. Google didn't help.

                            This is with a emu10k1 card (SB Live! 5.1 Dell OEM [SB0228]).

                            I'm happy for any help with this.
                            Speaking of which... TAXI, sorry we like completly ignored you. I do want to help you though. What distro are you? What version of Pulseaudio? By "SB LIVE!" I'm assuming youre using a SoundBlaster card?

                            Comment


                            • The PulseAudio debugging should probably be done on some other thread. Reporting it to PulseAudio's or distribution's bug tracker might also make sense.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by frign View Post
                                However, most problems you addressed with ALSA have been in regards to those during the transition-phase from OSS to ALSA, when ALSA was still buggy and lagging features. It now _does_ support bluetooth through "bluez", it definitely has been fixed in regards to io-routing and it is not a big bloated hog clobbering the user-space, being well-integrated into the Kernel.
                                ALSA itself has supported Bluetooth & the like for quite some time, but most userspace applications used ALSA in a way that didn't work (well) with Bluetooth, and those same applications also didn't work well with PulseAudio's ALSA emulation.

                                So, if anything, PulseAudio probably helped to fix a lot of those applications (if 80% of your users use PA & complain, that's harder to ignore than those 2% bluetooth users before).

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