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  • #91
    Originally posted by duby229 View Post
    Yeah its a mistake that people have to deal with until then unfortunately. And thats the whole problem with LP fans. They seem to think that "This is the retarded way that I am doing things, so you have to do the things my retarded way at least until there is an uprising and we can't make you anymore."
    And what are you gonna do if this DOESNT come "Crashing down" and everything ends up working just fine?

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    • #92
      Originally posted by Ericg View Post
      And what are you gonna do if this DOESNT come "Crashing down" and everything ends up working just fine?
      Well, thats the great thing about linux. I can choose a distro that removes me from the retarded decisions that other people make and try to enforce. Yes it is true that LP has made it difficult to not run systemd (with promises to make it even more difficult in the near future), but I'm still managing thanks to the awesome work being done by gentoo devs. As long as this remains an OSS community I think gentoo will manage to keep systemd optional.
      Last edited by duby229; 03-28-2013, 02:35 PM.

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      • #93
        Originally posted by duby229 View Post
        Oh its faaaar from everyone and just me.
        Stop bullshitting and go into specifics. You said Red Hat, Suse, Mandriva, Mageia, Arch, Fedora and those car companies all idiots and you're the sane one. "But it is not just me!". Cool, more than just one idiot! I don't really care.

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        • #94
          Originally posted by duby229 View Post
          Well, thats the great thing about linux. I can choose a distro that removes me from the retarded decisions that other people make and try to enforce. Yes it is true that LP has made it difficult to not run systemd (with promises to make it even more difficult in the near future), but I'm still managing thanks to the awesome work being done by gentoo devs. As long as this remains an OSS community I think gentoo will manage to keep systemd optional.
          What do you mean with the awesome work of Gentoo devs? You mean those eudev developers. Who confused the Gentoo udev packaging with udev upstream? As admitted during the FOSDEM talk.

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          • #95
            Originally posted by duby229 View Post
            Well, thats the great thing about linux. I can choose a distro that removes me from the retarded decisions that other people make and try to enforce. Yes it is true that LP has made it difficult to not run systemd, but I'm still managing thanks to the awesome work being done by gentoo devs. As long as this remains an OSS community I think gentoo will manage to keep systemd optional.
            So even if all of the fears and borderline FUD you and the rest of Gentoo are spreading turns out to be absolutely baseless and theres ZERO problems with systemd longterm and systemd and Pulseaudio take over the world and everything is working fine and better than ever...

            You're still gonna be like "Nope. Fuck that. Don't care, don't like any of it." Just because it was written by LP? Thats like borderline religious hate dude.. Like thats not a "I've got problem A, B, and C and therefore not going to use that because of A, B, and C." Thats more like: "I've got problem A B and C." then they explain to you that you actually dont have problem A B and C, A B and C are just in your imagination." and then you turn around and go "MY IMAGINATION IS REALITY! IM SUPERMAN!" and try to jump out a window wearing a red blanket as a cape.

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            • #96
              Originally posted by bkor View Post
              What do you mean with the awesome work of Gentoo devs? You mean those eudev developers. Who confused the Gentoo udev packaging with udev upstream? As admitted during the FOSDEM talk.
              Then it should be split into a separate package. But its not. That is the problem. All of these years of trying to modularize big monolithic packages didnt go wasted. Its a valuable methodology. Systemd spits in the face of what the community has been trying to do for the last years.

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              • #97
                Originally posted by Ericg View Post
                So even if all of the fears and borderline FUD you and the rest of Gentoo are spreading turns out to be absolutely baseless and theres ZERO problems with systemd longterm and systemd and Pulseaudio take over the world and everything is working fine and better than ever...

                You're still gonna be like "Nope. Fuck that. Don't care, don't like any of it." Just because it was written by LP? Thats like borderline religious hate dude.. Like thats not a "I've got problem A, B, and C and therefore not going to use that because of A, B, and C." Thats more like: "I've got problem A B and C." then they explain to you that you actually dont have problem A B and C, A B and C are just in your imagination." and then you turn around and go "MY IMAGINATION IS REALITY! IM SUPERMAN!" and try to jump out a window wearing a red blanket as a cape.
                So let me get this straight.... When you can't win an argument you just start making shit up? Really? I bet that rarely works out well for you.

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                • #98
                  Originally posted by duby229 View Post
                  Then it should be split into a separate package. But its not. That is the problem.
                  Both Arch Linux and openSUSE shipped with split systemd (separate systemd and udev packages) before completely moving over. Debian seems to do the same.

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                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Teho View Post
                    Both Arch Linux and openSUSE shipped with split systemd (separate systemd and udev packages) before completely moving over. Debian seems to do the same.
                    Thats the problem. Tell me exactly why should it be the distro's responsibility to fix something that should have been done upstream? Especially in cases where the distro tries to be as close to upstream as possible?

                    You're imposing a catch22.

                    EDIT: That is why gentoo's fork of udev makes perfect sense. Thats why it was necessary.

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                    • Originally posted by frign View Post
                      When Lennart Poettering is so good at puking code, he should start working on the Kernel
                      I admit this is a conspiracy theory but I'll just put it out there. Poetterix kernel. I mean, he's into reinventing things and doing things how "it should be done", even if it breaks things. Why not just rewrite the Linux kernel the way it "should be done"?


                      Remember where you read it first
                      Last edited by sjukfan; 03-28-2013, 03:30 PM.

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                      • Originally posted by duby229 View Post
                        Then it should be split into a separate package. But its not. That is the problem. All of these years of trying to modularize big monolithic packages didnt go wasted. Its a valuable methodology. Systemd spits in the face of what the community has been trying to do for the last years.
                        You change topics so quickly it seems you cannot focus at all.

                        You want systemd split into different packages. Cool. You call it a problem that it is not split out. Cool.

                        But saying that your views on how systemd should work is "spits in the face": Does not make any sense. Also saying "what the community", while the community (loads+loads of distributions have adopted systemd) has gone with systemd does not make sense at all.

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                        • Originally posted by sjukfan View Post
                          I admit this is a conspiracy theory but I'll just put it out there. Poetterix kernel. I mean, he's into reinventing things and doing things how "it should be done", even if it breaks things. Why not just rewrite the Linux kernel the way it "should be done"?
                          He asked for various changes/additions to the kernel and various changes have been made as a result. Furthermore, one kernel developer is now working on making something which will benefit Android as well as udev. Why fork/rewrite if people already do what you request?

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                          • Originally posted by bkor View Post
                            You change topics so quickly it seems you cannot focus at all.

                            You want systemd split into different packages. Cool. You call it a problem that it is not split out. Cool.

                            But saying that your views on how systemd should work is "spits in the face": Does not make any sense. Also saying "what the community", while the community (loads+loads of distributions have adopted systemd) has gone with systemd does not make sense at all.
                            It spits in the face of package modularity. There is a very good reason why so many big projects have modularized over the last few years... But noooo, LP thinks his way is better... We'll see how long it lasts. For him it isnt about better projects its about control.

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                            • Originally posted by duby229 View Post
                              Thats the problem. Tell me exactly why should it be the distro's responsibility to fix something that should have been done upstream? Especially in cases where the distro tries to be as close to upstream as possible?
                              Split of udev is supported in upstream systemd. It however doesn't support compiling udev without systemd and even that can be fixed by just changing the makefile. I don't really see why systemd/udev developers should support every niche setup imaginable.

                              Originally posted by sjukfan
                              Why not just rewrite the Linux kernel the way it "should be done"?
                              Because Lennart actually works on technical merit and rewriting Linux wouldn't make any sense?

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                              • Originally posted by Teho View Post
                                Split of udev is supported in upstream systemd. It however doesn't support compiling udev without systemd and even that can be fixed by just changing the makefile. I don't really see why systemd/udev developers should support every niche setup imaginable.
                                And thats why it was forked. Because they couldnt take the time to keep it modular. Because people like you couldnt see past there own nose and understand that not everyone will be using systemd. That udev in fact has existed before sytstemd and there are in fact configurations that depend on udev that dont need systemd.

                                Its arrogant and shortsighted.

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