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Systemd 199 Has Its Own D-Bus Client Library

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  • #16
    Originally posted by frign View Post
    Using Gentoo, I set it up so that I don't even need D-Bus on my system, so yes, it definitely is possible to go without systemd and dbus, given you are using none of the pre-setup distributions who _will_ require systemd (e.g. Ubuntu).
    Question: Why would you want to do that? Security?

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Rexilion View Post
      Question: Why would you want to do that? Security?
      Yep, security. And of course, when was the last time you saw a system running on 38MB RAM with Xorg running? It may be unnecessary in today's aspects, but cutting of unneeded stuff definitely increases security.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Sonadow View Post
        I'd really like to know how you can set up a system without dbus when Gnome, KDE and Firefox have dbus as a dependency.
        I am using DWM instead of Gnome, because Gnome 3 sucks and DWM sucks less (literally, check out http://suckless.org).
        Instead of using Firefox, I employ DWB based on webkit-gtk, which even allows me to drop of GTK+3 out of the ship and only running GTK+2.

        That's how it works

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        • #19
          Originally posted by curaga View Post
          Don't use KDE or Gnome. FF could be compiled without it last I checked.
          I can't compile it without dbus. Speaking from personal experience on Mageia 2 and Fedora 17.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by frign View Post
            I am using DWM instead of Gnome, because Gnome 3 sucks and DWM sucks less (literally, check out http://suckless.org).
            Instead of using Firefox, I employ DWB based on webkit-gtk, which even allows me to drop of GTK+3 out of the ship and only running GTK+2.

            That's how it works
            Yeah I'm aware of the suckless projects. But that must be a lot of work to save 100 megs of RAM.

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            • #21
              Hogs

              Originally posted by Rexilion View Post
              Yeah I'm aware of the suckless projects. But that must be a lot of work to save 100 megs of RAM.
              No, it actually isn't. It is my hobby to optimise computer systems and I am currently working on eudev (Gentoo fork) to make it more efficient. No one has to go this extreme, but it is fun to break the barriers.
              Today's OS's are memory-hogs and we should not start to waste so many ressources just because they are available, we should work on optimising current systems so they can bring even more performance.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by frign View Post
                No, it actually isn't. It is my hobby to optimise computer systems and I am currently working on eudev (Gentoo fork) to make it more efficient. No one has to go this extreme, but it is fun to break the barriers.
                Today's OS's are memory-hogs and we should not start to waste so many ressources just because they are available, we should work on optimising current systems so they can bring even more performance.
                Y'know, there's a reason Linux has to embrace a full GUI for doing everything even though the console is the the fastest way to get certain tasks done.

                Also, I don't have any issue with an operating system taking up large chunks of memory to cache itself so that frequently used applications and stuff can execute faster. And of course, large amounts of memory are also used to perform background stuff like address randomization and such.

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                • #23
                  Making it a bit clearer

                  Originally posted by Sonadow View Post
                  Y'know, there's a reason Linux has to embrace a full GUI for doing everything even though the console is the the fastest way to get certain tasks done.

                  Also, I don't have any issue with an operating system taking up large chunks of memory to cache itself so that frequently used applications and stuff can execute faster. And of course, large amounts of memory are also used to perform background stuff like address randomization and such.
                  Yes, but address randomisation for instance is already included in those 39 Megabytes. I am talking about the bloat systemd for example is, attempting to sculpt everything around them and locking users into their agenda.
                  Lennart Poettering is a really smart guy, his projects are nice to read, but damn, he is no guy I would like to work with because his agenda is disputable.

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                  • #24
                    That kind of attitude is so annoying. Its nonsense. The more memory that is used the more resources that are needed to put it there. Just because computers today have alot of RAM doesnt mean that an idling OS needs to use it all. RAM is for applications.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Sonadow View Post
                      I can't compile it without dbus. Speaking from personal experience on Mageia 2 and Fedora 17.
                      It was way before 17, something like 4 when I last built firefox.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by frign View Post
                        Lennart Poettering is a really smart guy, his projects are nice to read, but damn, he is no guy I would like to work with because his agenda is disputable.
                        What agenda? Do you have some examples of what you are refering to?

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Teho View Post
                          What agenda? Do you have some examples of what you are refering to?
                          systemd, pulseaudio, ...

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by frign View Post
                            systemd, pulseaudio, ...
                            Can you show your much better alternative for those listed applications then?

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by finalzone View Post
                              Can you show your much better alternative for those listed applications then?
                              [alsa, jack], udev and many more

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by frign View Post
                                [alsa, jack], udev and many more
                                Alsa does not provide the same as PulseAudio, nor does Jack. None of what you listed is a replacement for systemd.

                                I've attended the FOSDEM eudev talk and it was one of the worst presentations I've ever attended. No answers to questions, just things like "eat a chocolate". Some vague statements, no technical answers.

                                Seems the trend continues!

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