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Whats your take on the Microsoft/Novell Partnership?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by BoomStYx View Post
    Mmm... This is interesting, heres my take on it. I think if Microsoft tries to start taking swings at Linux, the only way Linux will survive is that the key people like Linus, and the people like i'm sure alot of us if not all of us here do something, at least one thing to help Open Source whether its reporting bugs, giving ideas or like what Michael does with this site, or Tuxgames by selling native Linux games, anything. Something to contribute.

    I don't think Microsoft has a chance, we're too free to be able to be tamed, and I believe Microsoft has seen some of the awesome projects that have came out of Open Source, such as the Beryl project with their innovative ways of creating a 3d desktop, or even more famous ones like Open Office, or even as high up as Firefox.

    The point is, they can try, but they won't succeed, so say SuSE goes bye bye, thats too bad, but, there are still alot of other great distros out there. But it could lead to a small chain reaction too like what someone else said, where SuSE is using Microsoft to go after Redhat, so basically, SuSE is now the bigger fish, swallows Redhat, Microsoft wants to now swallow SuSE, but whats left to swallow? Sun? I don't know about that hehe.

    I don't think we'll have much to worry about however, i'm just letting out possibilities, but I don't think it will do that much to the Linux/Open Source community. We're free, they're not.

    You do raise a valid point that as long as there is a copy of the source code somewhere, Linux will still be around. I am sure that it will be around forever just because of that reason.

    But what the bigger deal is here is that if Linux somehow gets driven out of the current edge-of-mainstream back into the "hacker and CS-major OS" niche is that we'll see development for it slow greatly. We'll see no more new 3rd-party applications or the necessary-evil stuff like binary blob GPU drivers and Flash plugins. I don't know about you, but I am glad that Linux is gaining popularity because the 3rd-party development makes it much more usable and a real choice for general use.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by MU_Engineer View Post
      You do raise a valid point that as long as there is a copy of the source code somewhere, Linux will still be around. I am sure that it will be around forever just because of that reason.

      But what the bigger deal is here is that if Linux somehow gets driven out of the current edge-of-mainstream back into the "hacker and CS-major OS" niche is that we'll see development for it slow greatly. We'll see no more new 3rd-party applications or the necessary-evil stuff like binary blob GPU drivers and Flash plugins. I don't know about you, but I am glad that Linux is gaining popularity because the 3rd-party development makes it much more usable and a real choice for general use.
      Yep absolutely, yeah i'm very glad that Linux is picking up, but at the same time, it makes me a little nervous. Mainly i'm worried about how alot of the big projects around will fare against like say Microsoft trying to do something about it. I don't know exactly what they can do at this moment but I do know that if something were to happen, it would be a chain reaction of some sort.

      And yeah, Linux won't ever die, I mean lets say the worst happens, and it does become that "hacker" os it used to be, we'd basically have to start over. And that sucks. But I don't think that'll happen, I think if bad things were to happen, it may only strenghten Linux more, because it'll only make people try harder that care the most. And the big projects that care the most, obviously stand out above the rest, since its the ones we all care about the most, like Firefox.

      I think the distro we really need to keep our eye on is Ubuntu because that distro is the most popular for home computers at the moment, alot of new users are starting there. But I think Microsoft's real intention is to take over the business world side of Linux. But who knows how far they'd really go if they did succeed.

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      • #18
        Miguel got Novell to answer some more questions -- http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2006/Nov-07-1.html
        Michael Larabel
        http://www.michaellarabel.com/

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Michael View Post
          Miguel got Novell to answer some more questions -- http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2006/Nov-07-1.html
          Good read.. for the most part. Doesn't instill additional confidence though. It's really hard at this point to see where this is going to go.

          First ATI buys AMD, and then Novell partners with Microsoft. What a year this has been.

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          • #20
            The theory that was discussed in our IT department is interesting, indeed. M$ has been taking alot of heat for the weak security in their OS's. It makes sense for them to now begin work on the next version of Windows...Why not go for a ground-up rewrite? They have already stated that they wish their kernel to be modular from here on out, as opposed to the monolithic kernel style that has been used for years. It wouldn't be far-fetched to bring Novell's SUSE developers into the mix. 2 situations could present themselves - 1) M$ somehow gets information from the specific Unix patents that Novell still holds (I don't know what they are.) or 2) M$ has SUSE kernel dev's come up with a new kernel design that doesn't outright use existing Linux code, but follows a similar structure for a more stable and secure design.

            The other thought is pretty obvious by Steve Ballmer's comments - In their eyes, you aren't protected against patent violations, unless of course you use some form of SUSE.

            Just a couple of thoughts - What do you guys think?

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            • #21
              Linux is open Source, the code is out there for anyone to see. There is no need for Microsoft to ally with someone in Linux to gain that information, nor do they need Novell's engineers to assist them in making a new kernel if thats what they choose. The NT Kernel was originally written by one man, coincidentally so was Linux's, and then heavily modified over the years to meet the needs of new technology. I guess what I'm saying is that with all the resources Microsoft has, they wouldn't need Novell. They also could not make a new Kernel based off of Linux kernel source without giving back all their changes, and I just don't see that happening.

              One interesting thing I'd like to note is that there was a steady amount of updates for SLED 10 up until 2 weeks ago, now nothing. I wonder why that is?

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              • #22
                I wasn't trying to imply that Microsoft CAN'T write a new kernel without outside help. What I meant is that they might want to bring someone end that has extensive experience with building modular style kernels. Just because someone can figure out how to build a hot rod doesn't mean they really want to do it all on their own.

                There is something else going on here...Microsoft doesn't choose allies easily - They must have alot more to gain than they lead on.

                Just an idea. Could be completely wrong and it's only about patent stuff.
                Last edited by afterburntdw; 11-08-2006, 11:05 AM.

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                • #23
                  The Samba team is now asking Novell to reconsider this deal -- http://news.samba.org/announcements/team_to_novell/
                  Michael Larabel
                  http://www.michaellarabel.com/

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                  • #24
                    Novell will have to come up with something good for the Linux community as an outcome of this deal with Microsoft if they intend to stay on the good side of many within the community. The Novell and SuSE brands, in my opinion, are on the verge of becoming way too tied to Microsoft to be a viable member to the GNU/Linux and Open Source community if they don't show us that this partnership is in some way good for us.

                    And I am very sceptical that they can pull this off. Microsoft is not a friend of the Linux community. This has been proven by years of derogatory statements, underhanded deals, and their basic way of doing business... throwing money at this problem cannot help their company erase this image they've made for themselves. I don't understand why Novell would want to tie themselves to such a company.

                    Another thing I'm interested in is whether or not this deal will impact Novell-related projects other than their distribution, namely XGL. AIGLX is already a good alternative to XGL, and an added bonus is that it doesn't replace the already-installed X server (in fact it's included in X.org V7.1). I know which one I'll be using.

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                    • #25
                      Interesting Interview with Exec from MS about Novell Deal.

                      Here's an interview from Computerworld with Bill Hill, General Manager for Platform Strategy at Microsoft. An excerpt:

                      "Computerworld: What is Microsoft’s motivation for the deal with Novell? BH: This is an intellectual property deal. There will be an overlap at some point between our intellectual property and open source that we have to resolve."

                      The full article is here:

                      http://www.computerworld.com/action/...ticleId=273006

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                      • #26
                        Just read this in Fortune Magazine -- says the Microsoft Novell deal will be dead by March.

                        The potentially historic Microsoft-Novell pact announced last week, whereby Microsoft would grant patent peace to users of Novell's Suse Linux software in exchange for royalty payments paid by Novell to Microsoft, will be dead by mid-March, promises Eben Moglen, the general counsel of the Free Software Foundation (FSF). The FSF controls the license that governs the distribution of Linux and many other key forms of free and open-source software.
                        http://money.cnn.com/rssclick/blogs/...azines_fortune
                        Michael Larabel
                        http://www.michaellarabel.com/

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                        • #27
                          It's good to see that deals of this nature will be specifically banned in GPL3.

                          It's too bad - I liked SUSE alot. But I won't touch it now.

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                          • #28
                            Another set of those opposed to this deal:

                            Schwartz (Sun) - http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/...fm?newsID=7361

                            Red Hat - http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2059675,00.asp

                            Microsoft actually wants to deal with Red Hat like they are doing with Novell, but Red Hat is smart and says no.
                            Michael Larabel
                            http://www.michaellarabel.com/

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                            • #29
                              Ballmer: Linux users owe Microsoft

                              In comments confirming the open-source community's suspicions, Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer Thursday declared his belief that the Linux operating system infringes on Microsoft's intellectual property.

                              In a question-and-answer session after his keynote speech at the Professional Association for SQL Server (PASS) conference in Seattle, Ballmer said Microsoft was motivated to sign a deal with SUSE Linux distributor Novell earlier this month because Linux "uses our intellectual property" and Microsoft wanted to "get the appropriate economic return for our shareholders from our innovation."

                              http://www.linuxworld.com.au/index.p...39;fp;2;fpid;1

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                              • #30
                                Steve Ballmer really makes my blood boil. He's got to be one of the most unpolished and childish executives in the IT industry. He never says specifically what in the Linux kernel infringes on MS IP. He's got nothing.

                                In my opinion, he (and MS by extension) only see $$$ for their shareholders - He even says that himself. MS has been trying to get a slice of the *nix pie for a long time now.

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