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Systemd Dreams Up New Feature, Makes It Like Cron

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  • #16
    So the downfall of linux will be its strength... the ability for people to do what they want?

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    • #17
      Originally posted by uid313 View Post
      Unix philosophy is do one thing and do it well.

      This I just read about systemd make it seems bloated and monolithic.
      Here's the problem I have with people saying that. "systemd" isn't just 1 binary. Its about 20. When you say "systemd" now youre actually talking about a collection a binaries, a suite of binaries designed by 1 team with the purpose of providing low-level functionality for a linux-based system. It isn't one giant binary doing 20 things. Its 20 binaries with the expressed and explicit purpose of working together with the other binaries of the suite.

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      • #18
        I wouldnt call it "doing what you want" Its more like "doing what you have no other choice but to do". Thats why eudev was forked. And it seems like the only downfall will be some of the major distro's. When sysd fails ultimately other distro's will rise. We've seen it happen before.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Ericg View Post
          It isn't one giant binary doing 20 things. Its 20 binaries with the expressed and explicit purpose of working together with the other binaries of the suite.
          And this wouldn't be a problem if they weren't moving towards ONLY working together with other binaries of the same suite.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Ericg View Post
            Here's the problem I have with people saying that. "systemd" isn't just 1 binary. Its about 20. When you say "systemd" now youre actually talking about a collection a binaries, a suite of binaries designed by 1 team with the purpose of providing low-level functionality for a linux-based system. It isn't one giant binary doing 20 things. Its 20 binaries with the expressed and explicit purpose of working together with the other binaries of the suite.
            The problem is though that these binaries are incompatible with the ones they replace. They are bigger and buggier.

            The whole problem with this idea is what happens when one component needs to take a natural evolution that the maintainers disagree with? It won't happen. And this has already begun..
            Last edited by duby229; 01-28-2013, 01:32 PM.

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            • #21
              Its OBVIOUS that Lennart Poettering disagrees with a lot of other people. He is disregarding their views as "myths" and is ignoring their input and is even working to circumvent them. How successful can his projects be when it is so clear of his bias?

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              • #22
                Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
                And this wouldn't be a problem if they weren't moving towards ONLY working together with other binaries of the same suite.
                That varies depending on what you're talking about. Journal and syslog work fine together. Systemd's timejobs and cron work fine together (only two I think of that provide direct competition). inetd was replaced by $service.socket files, which i think is fairly logical since its still process management. loginctl is the official successor to consolekit, so thats their fault for giving up on their project *shrugs* If you can think of more, go ahead and post them, more than happy to go through them all one by one and we can figure out EXACTLY what systemd "works with" vs has a "scorched earth" policy about.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by uid313 View Post
                  Unix philosophy is do one thing and do it well.

                  This I just read about systemd make it seems bloated and monolithic.
                  See myth #1(nonolothic) and myth#12(bloated).
                  http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by phoronix View Post
                    One of the features includes work to make systemd have its own time-based job scheduler that's similar in nature to cron...
                    Isn't this calendar functionality already in systemd 197?

                    CHANGES WITH 197:

                    * Timer units now support calendar time events in addition to
                    monotonic time events. That means you can now trigger a unit
                    based on a calendar time specification such as "Thu,Fri
                    2013-*-1,5 11:12:13" which refers to 11:12:13 of the first
                    or fifth day of any month of the year 2013, given that it is
                    a thursday or friday. This brings timer event support
                    considerably closer to cron's capabilities. For details on
                    the supported calendar time specification language see
                    systemd.time(7).

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by 0xCAFE View Post
                      Isn't this calendar functionality already in systemd 197?
                      This was talking about Features for Fedora 19, so although systemd 197 may have those features, Fedora 18 may be on 196 or 195 currently and therefore it'll be F19 that gets 197+

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                      • #26
                        How successful can his projects be when it is so clear of his bias?
                        Successful enough to get into Fedora and its progeny since he works for Red Hat.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Ericg View Post
                          This was talking about Features for Fedora 19, so although systemd 197 may have those features, Fedora 18 may be on 196 or 195 currently and therefore it'll be F19 that gets 197+
                          Fedora 18 already has systemd 197 in updates-testing repository
                          Code:
                          $ rpm -q systemd
                          systemd-197-1.fc18.1.x86_64
                          $ yum info systemd
                          Name        : systemd
                          Arch        : x86_64
                          Version     : 197
                          Release     : 1.fc18.1
                          Size        : 9.4 M
                          Repo        : installed
                          From repo   : updates-testing

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Hibiki Kanzaki View Post
                            Successful enough to get into Fedora and its progeny since he works for Red Hat.
                            Success isnt forcing people to use it... I'm talking about people wanting to use it because its good stuff. I've heard more complaints from more people than from those who support it.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by duby229 View Post
                              Success isnt forcing people to use it... I'm talking about people wanting to use it because its good stuff. I've heard more complaints from more people than from those who support it.
                              And I hear more people complaining about Gnome-Shell than those who support it. (I hate Gnome-Shell personally, but to each their own if they want to use it).

                              My point is: the people who don't like something are always more vocal than those who do.

                              And really success would in a way be forcing people to use it... If the project like systemd is successful then its widespread. User's dont decide what the distros use, the developers do and if systemd is widespread then the developers are probably using it.. The only people who have a choice are those that run Debian or Gentoo because they can use sysV, Upstart or Systemd or OpenRC. If you run fedora youre forced to use systemd. If you run Ubuntu youre forced to Upstart. If you run openSuse youre forced to use systemd.

                              Really people's complaints seem to be "I'm angry because my distro of choice is forcing me to use systemd." When the reality is, you were forced to use whatever they were using before it too. Maybe it worked well, maybe it didn't. But I doubt you had a choice in the matter. And if THATS the case, then what you're really complaining about: is change.

                              Which is fine, people don't like change. But the problem there is...welcome to computers and especially open source software. Developers come and go, projects are born and die but power always finds a place to rest its head. Change happens. If you don't like it, use windows that guarantees backwards compatibility back to 3.1, or use Gentoo or Arch where you're in control or use debian that is 2-3years behind at any given moment.

                              Change happens people, get used to it.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by finalzone View Post
                                Fedora 18 already has systemd 197 in updates-testing repository
                                Code:
                                $ rpm -q systemd
                                systemd-197-1.fc18.1.x86_64
                                $ yum info systemd
                                Name        : systemd
                                Arch        : x86_64
                                Version     : 197
                                Release     : 1.fc18.1
                                Size        : 9.4 M
                                Repo        : installed
                                From repo   : updates-testing
                                Theeeeeeeeeen...who knows XD

                                Edit: maybe its listed as an F19 feature because it'll have it at launch-time? When F18 got released systemd didnt have it and therefore wasn't considered a "Feature." F19 will have systemd 197+ at launch time and therefore it IS considered a feature?

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