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Gentoo Developers Unhappy, Fork udev

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  • #31
    Eh, at first the kmod removal looked bad, but with the rationale above, it certainly makes sense.


    BTW, yes I hack init scripts often, and yes, I have edited udev source.

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    • #32
      Things become interesting. Sometimes a fork is a good thing and will accelerate development or overcome things and maybe one day it could be merged back. Though I'd still prefer one solution, not fragmented for such a core element of any Linux distribution.
      But they also got to fix some issues in gentoo Diego "flameeyes" mentioned. I also noticed that there were complications on some big libs or core elements. (boost, glibc, udev, udisks...).

      That is one of the few downsides of Gentoo. If upstream fucks up you're really soon to notice it - unless you go stable arch only. I still remember libpng breakage, incompatible with all before and I had to (revdep-)rebuild 80% of my system. Not even funny on a quadcore when your main system is unusable for more than a day.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by ryao View Post
        The principle systemd developers are two guys and we have the relevant pre-existing work in our repository. We yet to do our first tag and our top priority is making progress toward our first tag. The plan is to reintroduce libkmod support when we have it rewritten as an optional dependency.

        With that said, Volunteer developers are more than capable of competing with professional developers when there is an order of magnitude difference in code. The sheer amount of bloat in systemd is staggering and we are removing it from udev.
        Just out of curiosity. You have a few seasoned linux devs -excluding Kay and Lennart- that tell you that what you are trying to do is quite wrong. Don't you feel a bit weird about that???

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        • #34
          Apparently systemd is coming faster to Gentoo than I feared. Here an excerpt from #gentoo-udev:

          Code:
          14:02:29 GMT    nenolod | will this kill-split-/usr stuff effect openrc next?
          14:02:43 GMT  @Chainsaw | From what I've seen on the list a very vocal minority is running the show.
          14:03:11 GMT    nenolod | the no-split-/usr stuff will force our hand to either fork openrc or something else
          14:03:14 GMT  @Chainsaw | nenolod: It could affect openrc, if the silent majority does not speak up and let's
                                  | this project die out, the systemd steamroller will be upon us about two months from now.
          14:04:13 GMT  @Chainsaw | So if anyone is reading this that felt they shouldn't respond to gentoo-dev... 
                                  | I think you should. ryao is bearing the brunt of this, and if you do not show your support 
                                  | now he may think he's alone in this.
          So, speak up if you support it: Let's redesign the entire filesystem

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          • #35
            Apparently systemd is coming faster to Gentoo than I feared. Here an excerpt from #gentoo-udev:

            Code:
            14:02:29 GMT    nenolod | Chainsaw: will this kill-split-/usr stuff effect openrc next?
            14:02:43 GMT  @Chainsaw | nenolod: From what I've seen on the list a very vocal minority is running the show.
            14:03:11 GMT    nenolod | the no-split-/usr stuff will force our hand to either fork openrc or something else
            14:03:14 GMT  @Chainsaw | nenolod: It could affect openrc, if the silent majority does not speak up and let's 
                                    | this project die out, the systemd steamroller will be upon us about two months from now.
            14:04:13 GMT  @Chainsaw | So if anyone is reading this that felt they shouldn't respond to gentoo-dev...
                                    | I think you should. ryao is bearing the brunt of this, and if you do not show your support now
                                    | he may think he's alone in this.
            So, speak up if you support it: Let's redesign the entire filesystem!

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by 89c51 View Post
              Just out of curiosity. You have a few seasoned linux devs -excluding Kay and Lennart- that tell you that what you are trying to do is quite wrong. Don't you feel a bit weird about that???
              No opinion formed before our first tag has any value. The only weird thing is when end users decide to be parrots that echo such opinions to developers.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by 89c51 View Post
                Just out of curiosity. You have a few seasoned linux devs -excluding Kay and Lennart- that tell you that what you are trying to do is quite wrong. Don't you feel a bit weird about that???
                Don't you feel a bit weird writing this..?

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                • #38
                  Like I said before when this came up, I feel uncomfortable when core functionality like udev is looking like it will no longer be developed as a separate component. As an Arch user I've switched to systemd and I like it, a bit faster at boot and much faster at shutdown, everything works (for me).

                  That doesn't mean I will always like it, or that something better would not come along. And in the case of the latter, tying udev to a specific init will only make it harder to experiment with alternatives as I see it.

                  So I think it's good we are seeing a non-systemd dependent udev fork, I just wish we could have friendly competition or better yet cooperation rather than what seems like lots of hostility.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by asdx
                    I couldn't agree more. Udev should be its own project. Period.
                    Then you find some more people who wants to deal with the extra maintenance burden. Period.

                    And no. Counting the angry hipster-forkster mob helps nothing. They are busy being AGILE!
                    http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux....26/focus=81229

                    Btw spend some time reading about Gregs many points in said thread. This hipster-fork is a complete joke.

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                    • #40

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                      • #41
                        Seriously, Godwin's law should be extended to also cover that ridiculous 'hipster argument'. "YER A HIPSTER SO IM RIGHT AND UR WRONG", what a sad people.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by kaszak View Post
                          Seriously, Godwin's law should be extended to also cover that ridiculous 'hipster argument'. "YER A HIPSTER SO IM RIGHT AND UR WRONG", what a sad people.
                          Seriously, Godwin's law should be extended to also cover that ridiculous 'Lennart is evil argument'. This is a clear case of untalented people driven by Lennart hate. Want proof?
                          https://plus.google.com/115547683951...ts/dARyF4UbXzf
                          How low is that!?

                          And yes; Doing dead on arrival forks fuelled by pure hate IS the open source version of the hipster movement. Any teen can do it, crapy or not, you WILL get moronix fame.
                          Last edited by funkSTAR; 11-19-2012, 12:43 PM.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by funkSTAR View Post
                            Seriously, Godwin's law should be extended to also cover that ridiculous 'Lennart is evil argument'. This is a clear case of untalented people driven by Lennart hate. Want proof?
                            https://plus.google.com/115547683951...ts/dARyF4UbXzf
                            How low is that!?

                            And yes; Doing dead on arrival forks fuelled by pure hate IS the open source version of the hipster movement. Any teen can do it, crapy or not, you WILL get moronix fame.
                            Holy crap, you're annoying.........

                            Forking is an essential part of the free software ecosystem, cathedral-like "my way or the highway" isn't.

                            There are legitimate reasons for many people to stay off systemd at this time. At least wait for the guys to release a few versions before passing your well-informed "judgement".

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
                              Holy crap, you're annoying.........

                              Forking is an essential part of the free software ecosystem, cathedral-like "my way or the highway" isn't.

                              There are legitimate reasons for many people to stay off systemd at this time. At least wait for the guys to release a few versions before passing your well-informed "judgement".
                              Forking is fine. Angry hipsters stripping the original developers' copyright notice is NOT. I dont need any releases when such stupidity hits the tree. Unnecessary, unethical and borderline unlawful.

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                              • #45
                                I'm OK with the fork.

                                I just don't get all the systemd fanboyism... Some people don't need to get rude because their project is being forked; it gives users more choice, and that's a good thing, especially in the free software world.
                                I think Red Hat is kind of trying to take over the whole GNU/Linux ecosystem, with their all-in-one solution (systemd + Gnome, all over the linux kernel), and I'm not buying it.

                                All I gotta say is if systemd is so superior to everything else, it'll just beat the competition; I don't know why some are scared by the fork to the point they have to make it look pathetic with no real argument, unless they're scared systemd will just go back to dust because of it...

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