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Gentoo Developers Unhappy, Fork udev

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  • #16
    Originally posted by 89c51 View Post
    The Linus crazy comment had nothing to do with Lennart or systemd in general. He was referring to Kay and the udev maintenance.
    Sorry but the neckbeard crowd already picked this up and we will see it repeated a million times.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by funkSTAR View Post
      Sorry but the neckbeard crowd already picked this up and we will see it repeated a million times.
      Sadly the neckbeard crowd didn't pick up all the positive comments made by many top end hackers about systemd. There was even a comment by gkh describing people that want systemd to disappear as "sad people". (Gkh is probably too polite and nice to use something like blatant idiots).

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      • #18
        Originally posted by 89c51 View Post
        Sadly the neckbeard crowd didn't pick up all the positive comments made by many top end hackers about systemd. There was even a comment by gkh describing people that want systemd to disappear as "sad people". (Gkh is probably too polite and nice to use something like blatant idiots).
        Yes thats true.Even more sadly our beloved neckbeard crowd suffered from another delusion too; The failed to grasp that no one was willing to maintain udev as it was.

        Greg stopped.
        Kay is willing on the terms it goes to systemd.
        The Gentoo crowd can only do forks which is so much easier because they can merge from systemd.

        I guess that is too complicated to understand when your neckbeard is growing so large it stops blood coming to your head. It is so sad to see clear evidence of lack of manpower results in waste of man power. The only fun part we get is to watch a bunch of neckbeards go crazy on a yellow journalism forum.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by 89c51 View Post
          The Linus crazy comment had nothing to do with Lennart or systemd in general. He was referring to Kay and the udev maintenance.
          His comment was about how udev was handled in general and the philosophy behind the firmware-loading specifically. However he also had a comment about how udev had been incorporated into systemd, and what impact that had on how it is maintained.
          And since Kay and Lennart was so kind to tightly integrate udev into systemd, and talk about how they will allow but not *support* an out-of-systemd usage of udev the question is if we really can separate the two as different projects anymore?

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          • #20
            Originally posted by funkSTAR View Post
            Yes thats true.Even more sadly our beloved neckbeard crowd suffered from another delusion too; The failed to grasp that no one was willing to maintain udev as it was.

            Greg stopped.
            Kay is willing on the terms it goes to systemd.
            The Gentoo crowd can only do forks which is so much easier because they can merge from systemd.

            I guess that is too complicated to understand when your neckbeard is growing so large it stops blood coming to your head. It is so sad to see clear evidence of lack of manpower results in waste of man power. The only fun part we get is to watch a bunch of neckbeards go crazy on a yellow journalism forum.
            Redhat has 2 guys working on systemd while we have 7 on the team that is working on the udev fork. Who do you think is suffering from a lack of manpower?

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Xake View Post
              His comment was about how udev was handled in general and the philosophy behind the firmware-loading specifically. However he also had a comment about how udev had been incorporated into systemd, and what impact that had on how it is maintained.
              And since Kay and Lennart was so kind to tightly integrate udev into systemd, and talk about how they will allow but not *support* an out-of-systemd usage of udev the question is if we really can separate the two as different projects anymore?
              I didn't saw anything besides the module loading. Or was it more than the linked mail conversion?
              Besides that i got the impression that the maintainer and the earlier maintainer mostly had the same view in how the module loading should work?

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              • #22
                "A ton of commits were made involving kmod and it is quite clear that it is broken, so we remove it."

                The commit above will add 100-150 entirely useless fork()/exec() to every bootup, and not have any other benefit. The same code, with the same dependencies will run, just with a forked binary. But hey, today's systems need only 150 PIDs to bring up the entire system, so who cares.

                Suggestion: if you want a project to believe in, we all need that sometimes, look for something else, this boat will sink faster than it will learn to swim.

                Actually I have nothing against a udev fork, if it looks useful to people go for it. I would even answer sensible questions, or whatever is needed. But that thing really just looks like a bad joke.
                -Kay Sievers

                Cute, gentoo wants to make a second, different fork of udev because the first gentoo fork is apparently too hostile to other gentoo developers.

                Gentoo-devel and debian-devel, the gifts that keep on giving on rainy saturdays.
                -Koen Kooi

                As +Koen Kooi so aptly states, this is the perfect gift for a weekend's worth of entertainment.

                It's sad to watch people delete code they don't understand.
                -https://plus.google.com/u/0/11104916... Kroah-Hartman


                Originally posted by ryan
                Redhat has 2 guys working on systemd while we have 7 on the team that is working on the udev fork. Who do you think is suffering from a lack of manpower?
                Are you joking? Over the last year systemd has had commits from 118 contributors and from 27 in the last month. It's also developed by various companies like Intel, Ericpol Telecom(?) and ProFusion. Not to mention that two Arch Linux developers have done quite a bit of upstream systemd developement too. Oh and yes, there's quite a bit of a difference between fulltime developers and hobbyist.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Teho View Post
                  Are you joking? Over the last year systemd has had commits from 118 contributors and from 27 in the last month. It's also developed by various companies like Intel, Ericpol Telecom(?) and ProFusion. Not to mention that two Arch Linux developers have done quite a bit of upstream systemd developement too. Oh and yes, there's quite a bit of a difference between fulltime developers and hobbyist.

                  Tizen is also using systemd afaik and there are plans to use it for user stuff as well in the future. Not sure what mer-project (the base for the new company jolla) uses but i think i saw something related to systemd and mer.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by 89c51 View Post
                    Tizen is also using systemd afaik and there are plans to use it for user stuff as well in the future. Not sure what mer-project (the base for the new company jolla) uses but i think i saw something related to systemd and mer.
                    Mer uses systemd. Intel probably does all the Tizen related systemd developement. It's used by numerous companies just not all of them do any upstream developement. It's for exampe part of the GENEVI IVI platform so even companies like Canonical support it.

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                    • #25
                      I had no idea this forum is filled with system admins who fiddle with init scrips all the time.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by RealNC View Post
                        I had no idea this forum is filled with system admins who fiddle with init scrips all the time.
                        i was going to say that i'd be interested to see how many people in this thread had ever even seen the udev source, but i'm pretty sure i know the answer already.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Teho View Post
                          -Kay Sievers


                          -Koen Kooi



                          -https://plus.google.com/u/0/11104916... Kroah-Hartman


                          Are you joking? Over the last year systemd has had commits from 118 contributors and from 27 in the last month. It's also developed by various companies like Intel, Ericpol Telecom(?) and ProFusion. Not to mention that two Arch Linux developers have done quite a bit of upstream systemd developement too. Oh and yes, there's quite a bit of a difference between fulltime developers and hobbyist.
                          The principle systemd developers are two guys and we have the relevant pre-existing work in our repository. We yet to do our first tag and our top priority is making progress toward our first tag. The plan is to reintroduce libkmod support when we have it rewritten as an optional dependency.

                          With that said, Volunteer developers are more than capable of competing with professional developers when there is an order of magnitude difference in code. The sheer amount of bloat in systemd is staggering and we are removing it from udev.
                          Last edited by ryao; 11-17-2012, 10:00 PM.

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                          • #28
                            I hope this won't affect Gentoo's plans for systemd support? Right now it's not as easy as simply emerging it and having it just work.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by RealNC View Post
                              I hope this won't affect Gentoo's plans for systemd support? Right now it's not as easy as simply emerging it and having it just work.
                              This is the extent of our plans for systemd support:

                              http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/base/systemd/index.xml

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by ryao View Post
                                With that said, Volunteer developers are more than capable of competing with professional developers when there is an order of magnitude difference in code.
                                That kinda requires that those developers actually know what they are doing but I seriously doubt that being the case here. Kay Sievers then again has developed udev for about nine years. These Gentoo users/developers seem to be only "good" at bashing Lennart, Red Hat and systemd. That certainly rises expectations.

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