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PulseAudio 2.0 Runs On HURD, Has Jack Detection

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  • #16
    same here, xonar dx and PA works perfect, even latency is unnoticable.

    if you have buty HW0, no other program can access hardware on same moment. so.. if you watch movi, you dont have sounds from i.e. pidgin. this is not an option in normal environment.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by bachinchi View Post
      Linux sound stack needs an overhaul. Too many abstraction layers
      How many more layers are there compared to Windows and OS X?

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      • #18
        I'm in total agreement with allquixotic: great breakdown of what is Pulse and what is ALSA.

        In my opinion there are not too many layers. There are exactly enough layers.

        ALSA for speaking to your hardware
        Pulse for managing input and output streams and sample rate conversions
        JACK for specialized music production software running at a fixed latency and a fixed sample rate

        One decent, specialized tool for every job. KISS. Take any of these away and you are left with an incomplete ecosystem.

        Should you need to, you can connect Pulse and JACK just fine. KXStudio 10.04 already did that nicely. I used to run youtube videos through the JACK based Calf plugin suite just for the fun of it.

        In general I'm rather happy with the Linux/Freedesktop audio stack. It's very transparent and I can shape it almost any way I like. You just need to know what the individual pieces are for.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by allquixotic View Post
          Therein lies your problem -- you're "trying" it rather than actually using it. Don't just give it 5 seconds every 3 months and decide you hate it. Confirmation bias: if you go into it disliking it, you're going to hate it no matter what it does.
          I've tried it for one month. There are a lot of workarounds needed to get every application working. And when you look into the ubuntu repositorys, what they have done to gt all this stuff working .... no thanks.

          Originally posted by allquixotic View Post
          And before you say that PA can do software mixing, don't kid yourself -- dmix is NOT a viable option. dmix is a nasty hack. It has 100 times more bugs than PA; it doesn't even work with half of the ALSA apps let alone anything else!
          It's weird then that dmix works with all applications that I have ever seen and PA does not, isn't it?
          I have a 7.1 surround sound setup with normalization over here.

          I don't know about latency, may be worse than PA but it's certainly not too much.


          Originally posted by allquixotic View Post
          It doesn't try to manage anything. It's up to the app if it wants to connect to PA or not.
          Nope, it replaces the default pcm of Alsa, so it really does try to manage everything. If you don't want that you will have to start creating workarounds. which can be quite funny considering that it's not that easy for every program to tell it that it shouldn't connect to the default pcm.

          Originally posted by allquixotic View Post
          PulseAudio can't help it that ALSA doesn't have built-in software mixing; apps that want to hook into hw:0 are broken by design (not only PA authors agree with this, also the ALSA developers agree with this) because direct hardware access is supposed to be reserved for infrastructure such as PA itself.
          O come on you talk about dmix and then you are saying that "ALSA doesn't have built-in software mixing"? Please be reasonable.
          We can agree on the HW:0 thing though.

          Originally posted by allquixotic View Post
          Oh, and most users will want the exact opposite than you: they want all their apps to route through PA so that they can control all the volumes in the same place, and only have to deal with one set of configuration: PA's, which is in a real nice GUI. So distros configure apps so that most apps will play through PA out of the box. This is the right approach IMHO.
          Please read my post again. I'm explicitly saying that I want that too. An a real nice gui is a real nice thing but it really is not essential. I want that stuff to work and after that we can make the real nice gui. And working it is definitely not with Pulseaudio.

          Originally posted by allquixotic View Post
          Most of ALSA's "support" for these features is a joke. This code is not really maintained and doesn't work with software mixing, well or at all.
          Actually I've had some problems in the past. But the corresponding bugs are fixed now and it works at least for me.

          Originally posted by allquixotic View Post
          Also, in case you didn't notice, having to manage configuration files that are touched by lots of programs is an absolute nightmare. Why do you think X.Org is trying to get people to stop using xorg.conf ? Because it's a mess and it's much easier to auto-detect the right settings and let the user change them at runtime with a GUI. This is why it's very easy to write a GUI to configure your monitors with xrandr, but very hard to write a GUI to configure your screens with xorg.conf (iirc only SUSE still supports that and I think they even deprecated YaST's support for xorg.conf recently... it was called SaX2 iirc).
          Well you are probably right with that.


          Originally posted by allquixotic View Post
          Only someone who runs an app that is poorly coded to force initializing hw:0 would say something like this. If all you use are apps that are compatible with PA by either using the "Safe ALSA Subset" or PA directly or any of its downstream consumers (openal-soft, SDL, wine, etc), then you have no reason to complain about PA because it "just works".
          Nope. I have no such program ... haven't stumbled upon one in a looooooong time. But PA still doesn't "just" work. try looking into some of the distributions repositories for how many workarounds there are in place. Wine is a nice example.

          I probably could also live with it if every application would start using pulseaudio exclusively but we are still not at that point.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by ChrisXY View Post
            Yes, for surround sound I always had to choose direct hardware access because the .asoundrc hacks didn't really work. On the other hand I haven't really gotten "true" surround sound with pulseaudio to work either.
            Works here. But true it is way to hard to setup. The cool thing about is that I can setup per channel equalizing, filtering the bass out for the small boxes and leaving it for the big ones.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Chewi View Post
              What do you mean by "true" surround sound? It worked out of the box here.
              I mean that I have an audio stream with 6 Channels and each Channel is being played on exactly the correct speaker. I always had some weird mixing going on but maybe this has gotten better now, since last time I used a surround system is some time ago.

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              • #22
                PA plays 6 channels with no problem.

                if your audio is like 2.0 it multiple signal to 2 stereo [copy]

                i dont need to use subbass [normal 2x 2.0 cabinets with large speakers 8"]

                imo subwoofer is peace of shit compared to large woofers in normal speakers

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                • #23
                  PulseAudio still is a crap

                  I've tried using this on a fresh 12.04 LTS and it is still a crap. Everytime my CPU would get into 100% usage and memory was low I had a huge gaps in sound playback (going as high as 3 seconds). That's just unacceptable so I just purge it and ALSA also. Those were replaced with OSSv4 which doesn't have such huge problems. Unfortunately even with that there are sometimes stream interruptions but nowhere as bad as PulseAudio (only in extreme situations).

                  There was a news on Phoronix that Chrome/Chromium will have PulseAudio support gues what it won't have it because there is no one to work on it so it's only ALSA. I've tried two games through NaCl Bastion and From Dust both were horrible in regards to sound output when I had PulseAudio and they are good on Open Sound System with ALSA emulation.

                  Look at the last comment in this bug report: http://code.google.com/p/chromium/is...wner%20Summary

                  Look at comments 48, 49 and 50: http://code.google.com/p/chromium/is...wner%20Summary

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Bestia View Post
                    There was a news on Phoronix that Chrome/Chromium will have PulseAudio support gues what it won't have it because there is no one to work on it so it's only ALSA. I've tried two games through NaCl Bastion and From Dust both were horrible in regards to sound output when I had PulseAudio and they are good on Open Sound System with ALSA emulation.
                    PulseAudio is the best thing happened to Linux regarding sound.

                    What would you rather have, everyone using ALSA or OSS and only having one sound application able to run at once? That is clearly unprofessional.

                    Most whiners about PulseAudio are those that have badly setup operating systems or messy settings. You do need to force all your applications to use PulseAudio instead of ALSA, and those that don't give you the option, then uninstall those. You do need to configure PulseAudio too, and that means setting channels and volumes.

                    What I would like more power in is PulseAudio virtual channels. Coders need to give users options to allow for better mixing of channels.

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                    • #25
                      alternate sample rates
                      What is this and why should I care? What is it good for?

                      jack detection
                      This means if you plug in your headphones then audio stops coming from the speakers and start coming from the headphones.
                      If you unplug your headphones, then audio resumes from the speakers.

                      echo cancellation
                      This means you can record better with a microphone, and it will cancel the echo.

                      virtual surround module
                      What is this and why should I care? What is it good for?

                      Xen para-virtualized audio-sink
                      What is this and why should I care? What is it good for?

                      fixed HURD support
                      This means PulseAudio now supports the GNU Hurd operating system kernel.

                      A2DP decoder quality improvements
                      This means something about Bluetooth improved.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by e8hffff View Post
                        What would you rather have, everyone using ALSA or OSS and only having one sound application able to run at once? That is clearly unprofessional.

                        Most whiners about PulseAudio are those that have badly setup operating systems or messy settings. You do need to force all your applications to use PulseAudio instead of ALSA, and those that don't give you the option, then uninstall those. You do need to configure PulseAudio too, and that means setting channels and volumes.
                        You do realise that OSSv4 can play sound from multiple programs simultaneously and has per app volume control. Configuration of programs won't change any of the problems I've mentioned.

                        Wine is another aspect of where PulseAudio just plain obviously suck. I've used the packages from Wine Ubuntu PPA and in winecfg it appeared as winepulse is in use (and winepulse.drv is installed).

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Larian View Post
                          How did you accomplish this? By that I mean are you routing ALL your audio from your machine, (system sounds, games, browser, etc...) through VLC? It sounds interesting and I'd like to know more.
                          It's not that hard. It's one of the basic features of KDE’s Phonon. Phonon is just a simple API wrapper for playback engines (not a sound server as some people mistake Phonon to be). All system sounds, music or videos are played through that.
                          Obviously I have the option to stack as many layers as I want. I could use PA. I could also use GStreamer, then additionally stack additional GStreamer plugins to get basic media playback

                          As for the browser, I use Firefox with the ViewTube Greasemonkey script which can use VLC’s Mozilla plugin for YouTube and other video sites (or any other plugin – mplayer or whatever one likes…).

                          Games: I don't play games on Linux. I have my gaming consoles for that.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Bestia View Post
                            You do realise that OSSv4 can play sound from multiple programs simultaneously and has per app volume control. Configuration of programs won't change any of the problems I've mentioned.
                            What, is this a modern feature? Is OSS's need for kernel OSS drivers a problem?

                            Originally posted by Bestia View Post
                            Wine is another aspect of where PulseAudio just plain obviously suck. I've used the packages from Wine Ubuntu PPA and in winecfg it appeared as winepulse is in use (and winepulse.drv is installed).
                            Yeah that's one gripe I do have, but that's Wine's fault. They dropped PulseAudio support and reverted back to ALSA. Like you alude to, you can get a build from Launchpad.net for a PA enabled version.

                            In my opinion, the ultimate user goal/wants should be:
                            * multiple applications playing sound at once
                            * channel mixing, example recording and playing from different channels, or merged ones
                            * sound sync'ed properly
                            * speed of sound layer
                            * codec integration
                            * hardware use priority
                            * Coders supporting PA for OS and applications, giving power to the users. Example, I'm yet to see virtual channel manipulation in Ubuntu/Kubuntu sound panels or sound recording software.
                            Last edited by e8hffff; 05-12-2012, 09:54 AM.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by e8hffff View Post
                              What, is this a modern feature? Is OSS's need for kernel OSS drivers a problem?
                              I think you are confusing OSSv3 which has been disabled or removed from Linux Kernel with OSSv4 which builds modules with DKMS.

                              Wine developers never wanted to have PulseAudio. They only consider ALSA and OSS. Winepulse is being worked on by Maarten Lankhorst http://repo.or.cz/w/wine/multimedia.git

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Bestia View Post
                                I think you are confusing OSSv3 which has been disabled or removed from Linux Kernel with OSSv4 which builds modules with DKMS.

                                Wine developers never wanted to have PulseAudio. They only consider ALSA and OSS. Winepulse is being worked on by Maarten Lankhorst http://repo.or.cz/w/wine/multimedia.git
                                OK. My Wine locks onto ALSA using a winealsa.drv, other words I no longer get an option to select OSS.

                                Why is PulseAudio chosen over OSS for Ubuntu-Kubuntu?

                                What is the PulseAudio vs OSS4 difference?

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