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Phalanger: Stuffing PHP With Mono, .NET

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  • Phalanger: Stuffing PHP With Mono, .NET

    Phoronix: Phalanger: Stuffing PHP With Mono, .NET

    The last time that Mono was talked about on Phoronix, which is a re-implementation of Microsoft's .NET platform for Linux and other operating systems, was when Miguel de Icaza was calling for more Mono-based C# games. This time around, Miguel is highlighting Mono when it comes to Phalanger, a .NET-based PHP implementation...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTA2NjM

  • #2
    Who's funding you, Icaza? Why do you keep working on project which is already dead on Linux?

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    • #3
      Icaza is like SCO, as long as (under the hood) M$ pays him he'll keep working on mono, urging us to use it.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by phoronix View Post
        Phoronix: Phalanger: Stuffing PHP With Mono, .NET

        The last time that Mono was talked about on Phoronix, which is a re-implementation of Microsoft's .NET platform for Linux and other operating systems...

        http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTA2NjM
        And to think, for all these years I thought phoronix was a tech review website with an emphasis on benchmarking!

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        • #5
          Mono is gaining traction, that's nice! Not only does it perform better, it's also very easy to integrate with existing codebases. Win win!

          Who's funding you, Icaza? Why do you keep working on project which is already dead on Linux?
          Who cares, the project's more active than ever before and the results speak for themselves.

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          • #6
            Oh no the empire's straw puppet BlackStar has come to lure us into the dark side.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by plonoma View Post
              Oh no the empire's straw puppet BlackStar has come to lure us into the dark side.
              Exactly, I'm employed by Micro$$$oft to entice weak-willed individuals to the dark side of the toast. Fear! Fear I say!

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              • #8
                You guys are still fear-mongering bigoted morons. Miguel likes and believes in the technology. It's GOOD technology. The language is best-in-class for its target markets. Literally, there is no other language, from any other company or Open project, that simultaneously offers the same features, compatibility, tooling, and performance as Mono does. Developers love C# because it's an amazing language, not because of evil plots.

                No, neither C++ nor D are comparable to C#. No, neither is Java. Python absolutely has nothing on it. The only _languages_ that compete with C# in the places that C# excels are things like IronPython, Boo, and other languages that are still .NET-based. C++ is far too low-level for many of the kinds of things C# excels at, D is missing various great C# features and is lacking the common runtime environment and vast array of libraries that .NET offers, Java is under more threat of patent litigation than Mono ever was (Oracle has already actually sued people over it, even after the GPL'd release of Java), and Python is a scripting language that is totally unsuitable for writing offline applications of the size and scale that C#/C++/Java/etc. are routinely used for.

                While it certainly would have been possible to implement a Mono-like engine that has all the same features and capabilities and performance but zero compatibility with .NET in order to assuage the bigoted anti-Microsofters while still bringing Linux app development into the 21st centruy, there would have been little to no _real_ benefit to eschewing that compatibility. Again, if Microsoft has patents that can outright kill Mono, they can kill _any_ modern high-level runtime (PyPy, the JavaScript runtimes, newer Java advances, LLVM, and so on would all likely be killed off if such patents exist and were brought to bear). If Microsoft has patents that specifically target their C#/.NET implementation, then Mono most likely doesn't even run afoul of them, and if it does it can just change implementation once made aware of the patents (and then we're at the case of having an incompatible work-alike, which is worse but better than nothing).

                So long as there's no reason to think that Mono does infringe on any real and enforceable patents (and there isn't), there's also no reason to give up the benefits of .NET compatibility, such as the ability to "port" a large variety of what would otherwise be Windows-only applications to Linux. The existence of ASP.NET on Mono is such an example, where the ASP.NET coders are going to be ASP.NET coders and the choice of using Linux and other Free software is entirely secondary to being able to use their development environment of choice.

                Last but not least, think of the tools like MonoDevelop. It's not as nice as Microsoft's VS C#/VB IDE, but it's beyond comparison with the other Free IDEs. Specifically because of C# and the fact that the language was designed to be easy to tool and easy to integrate with an IDE, unlike C++ or any dynamic language (the former of which is incredibly difficult to tool even with libraries like libclang, and the latter of which is literally impossible to tool the same way by the very definition of how the languages work). The tools for C# and .NET in general are a very large part of the reason why C# became so incredibly popular. You certainly can't claim that C# is only popular because of a plot by Microsoft, given that plenty of Microsoft's other products have flopped despite having billions pumped into them (Vista, the original tablets before the iPad, Zune, and possibly even the Windows Phone are just four obvious examples).

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by elanthis View Post
                  You guys are still fear-mongering bigoted morons.
                  Shut your pie hole mate, and give me a break, people don't start their projects thinking which lang offers everything that c#'s got. I once started learning D2 and it was amazing but there was no easy to install compiler. I'm into Java for a lot of time and C# is just a better Java VM/language implementation, so give me a break about your logic. More over, D and Vala have a huge advantage since they don't need the VM middle man which eats memory and CPU cycles any time you start a program, not to mention the VM is another source for crashing your app. Really, if you think you've got the higher ground to tell us what to think and to insult us - take a hike, moron.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by cl333r View Post
                    Shut your pie hole mate, and give me a break, people don't start their projects thinking which lang offers everything that c#'s got. I once started learning D2 and it was amazing but there was no easy to install compiler. I'm into Java for a lot of time and C# is just a better Java VM/language implementation, so give me a break about your logic. More over, D and Vala have a huge advantage since they don't need the VM middle man which eats memory and CPU cycles any time you start a program, not to mention the VM is another source for crashing your app. Really, if you think you've got the higher ground to tell us what to think and to insult us - take a hike, moron.
                    Are you really complaining about bad performance of managed languages right after a benchmark showing performance gains? VM crashing your app? It's exactly for the opposite purpose! You sound way too ignorant to be taken seriously Managed code was invented to ease development. It requires memory? No shit! Buy some, it's MUCH cheaper than paying a programmer for twice the time. You could write apps in ASM, coz that's the most efficient, but no, you just don't have time for that. Welcome the the 21st century, mate.
                    Last edited by anarki2; 03-06-2012, 02:36 AM.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by anarki2 View Post
                      Are you really complaining about bad performance of managed languages right after a benchmark showing performance gains? VM crashing your app? It's exactly for the opposite purpose! You sound way too ignorant to be taken seriously Managed code was invented to ease development. It requires memory? No shit! Buy some, it's MUCH cheaper than paying a programmer for twice the time. You could write apps in ASM, coz that's the most efficient, but no, you just don't have time for that. Welcome the the 21st century, mate.
                      What? You mean you don't know the VM is another source for an app crash? And after that you're call _me_ ignorant?
                      Benchmarks? You mean after you ignore the fact that apps relying on VMs have a slower startup, use more memory and require CPU cycles to check for errors and to JIT compile it? And that you only look at the already JIT compiled code (since not all code is being JIT compiled, some is interpreted) and out of those you only nit-pick those few cases which are faster than the C++ code (which could be optimized further) to claim that JIT based solutions are faster? Seriously? I'm programming in Java for over 10 years, so don't bullshit a bullshitter!

                      Should I also nit pick a case and tell you that Google newly found that C++ can create the fastest code of all langs including Java and C?
                      So who's the hypocrite here?
                      Last edited by cl333r; 03-06-2012, 03:21 AM.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
                        Mono is gaining traction, that's nice! Not only does it perform better, it's also very easy to integrate with existing codebases. Win win!



                        Who cares, the project's more active than ever before and the results speak for themselves.
                        I hardly find mono gaining traction. Who uses it on Linux? Ubuntu got rid of it.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by elanthis View Post
                          You guys are still fear-mongering bigoted morons. Miguel likes and believes in the technology. It's GOOD technology.
                          Can you name a few mono/.Net big applications where performance and memory footprint matters? Some games, graphic or sound editors etc. Banshee proved to be a disaster, but it's doesn't even qualify to applications I'm asking. Miguel is just a jerk who supports Microsoft. If it's good technology why it's not used in any serious projects (maybe except stock exchange for some time, but replaced by Linux later...)?

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                          • #14
                            One question to our C# dolls, given the existence of a _native_ compiled (hiphop), what incentive is there at all to use this?

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by curaga View Post
                              One question to our C# dolls, given the existence of a _native_ compiled (hiphop), what incentive is there at all to use this?
                              Because of PHP being dynamic language (a.k.a. eval). It is easy to be done with a JIT, when HipHop is a subset. The Phalanger is faster than the stock PHP, when the HipHop VM is slower than the default PHP. PhpCompiler would be great to exist, but is sadly a dead project now.
                              Edit: Php Compiler is different as site (as being .org not .net), as was the other option to speedup PHP.
                              Last edited by ciplogic; 03-06-2012, 11:38 AM.

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