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What People Are Saying About GNOME [Part 3]

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  • #16
    So what is Phoronix going to do about improving gnome now that they have harvested all this valuable data from us?

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    • #17
      Sorry but I like Gnome 3. I do agree with the previous comment that Nautilus needs some love. That aside, many of the previous problems with gnome-panel getting in the way of full screen apps don't happen any more. I no longer have to screw around with compiz to get apps to behave properly. Nor deal with beryl crashing or metacity crapping out. All of those crappy problems are gone. It feels even more stable and polished than G2.

      In terms of Gnome 3 "getting in the way" sorry I don't see it. My work happens in the application(s) or terminal not in the overlay menu. If I need a bottom panel, well I can choose out of the millions that are available in repo (they worked better than the default gnome-panel anyway and I installed them in G2 as well). It's just not the end of the world, and it definitely doesn't keep me from working, much less "get in my way".

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      • #18
        How about a similiar poll for KDE

        If you haven't done it yet can you do a poll of KDE4. My guess is that the emotional reply from frustrated and ignored KDE users would make Gnome feel pretty good about the negative responses found in this thread. What is it with Linux desktops? There seems to be a race to the bottom in making something users want in a Linux desktop. Seems they all aspire to be like Windows or Mac. Listen up KDE and Gnome, if your users wanted what's on Windows and Mac they'd be on those OS's. Your never going to win the simple casual user, nor should you try. Your customer is the educated power user who chooses Linux for a number of reasons, none of which have anything to do with all the nauseating eye candy you strive for. Focus your energy on doing something less and doing it very very well. Instead of adding more code bloat and dependencies on alpha and beta libraries start ripping them out. Strive for a desktop that boots in 5 seconds instead of 50. Please Fedora, Ubuntu, Open Susa, and other distributions - go to bat for your users here.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Teho View Post
          The problem here is your incapability to compromise. If you think that everything else is crap except Gnome 2 no matter how close they come and that it's just to say that people who most of which develope on their free time and unpaid deserve to die and burn in hell because they don't do exactly what you want them to do then you are simply a bad person.
          They didn't compromise and still refuse to, so why should I? They didn't consult their user base and still refuse to. That they do it for free is a straw man since nobody forced them to do the work but then nobody asked them either just as they didn't ask us what we would prefer but we know now what they're going to force upon us because of what they refuse to continue support for.

          I hate the new Firefox UI, but at least the functionality is still there for me to restore the original look and feel of version 3.5 while retaining all the new features of version 8. The same can not be said of Gnome3 or it's Fallback mode.

          As I've said, I've tried the rest, they don't have to be Gnome2, they done have to be KDE3, they just have to at least be as coherent as OSX 10.0~10.6 or Win 95~XP Classic. I don't like the way any of the NEW desktops on any OS work, Perhaps it's just because I've been using comps since the Apple IIe back in grade school, but I hate it when the UI doesn't do what is logically expected of it as it had always done for decades before.

          This is why I'm pulling for projects like Mate, for those of us that hate the iOSification of the desktop computer. We shall exist just as those that will use nothing but the terminal.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Kivada View Post
            That they do it for free is a straw man since nobody forced them to do the work but then nobody asked them either just as they didn't ask us what we would prefer but we know now what they're going to force upon us because of what they refuse to continue support for.
            The fact that they do it for free means that they are in no way responsible for you. Simple as that.

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            • #21
              Choice or No Choice

              The Developer isn't giving you a choice.
              The Distribution isn't giving you a choice.
              Where have we seen this before?

              KDE, GNOME, and everyone else know that distributions are just going to include whatever is the latest.

              This isn't a hobby anymore guys.
              It's enterprise.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by josian_220 View Post
                Gnome 3.2 feels definitively faster and much more polished, however some apps menus get hidden behind of the gnome-panel (gtk3 and firefox for instance), this issue IMHO is of big importance and should of have been fixed in 3.2 I mean even Gnome's own apps fall in this gap :/
                This is obviously a bug of Ubuntu's global menu implementation, nothing to do with Gnome.
                http://www.installubuntulinux.com/20...nu-behind.html

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                • #23
                  Gnome3 and problems with many applications like Firefox etc

                  using Gnome 3.0.2-5 on Debian testing with a nvidia 7300GT card.
                  I am adjusting to Gnome3 since other options are less as a Gnome2 user. I will try Xfce if it is really a promising alternative.

                  Now, the Problem with Gnome 3:
                  many applications particularly eog,shotwell and iceweasel browser has problem rendering images. pages gets garbled and stuck/misaligned when I scroll through web page.

                  I tried avaialable choices like disabling sync to vblank in nvidia-settings, added
                  Code:
                  export CLUTTER_VBLANK=none
                  to ~/.bashrc

                  this all failed.

                  Discussed this problem here. http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.p...8cc7778ef7117d

                  A Sample of What Happens when I scroll a web page like this forum for eg:


                  Anyone have any Clue what is Happening? Note that I have had no issue with Gnome2 or in Gnome fallback mode(and with compiz). direct rendering everything working fine.

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                  • #24
                    I think you should update to Gnome 3.2. I don't have any issue with the nvidia proprietary driver.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Kivada View Post
                      I don't like the way any of the NEW desktops on any OS work, Perhaps it's just because I've been using comps since the Apple IIe back in grade school, but I hate it when the UI doesn't do what is logically expected of it as it had always done for decades before.
                      This is why I'm pulling for projects like Mate, for those of us that hate the iOSification of the desktop computer. We shall exist just as those that will use nothing but the terminal.
                      Such design starteed much before IOS. At least, I remember the SLAB menu on openSUSE.

                      Now I can understand some people like you don't like change, but don't you think it is very personal ? And that it is impossible to make everyone happy ?
                      Many improvements (in any field) would have never happened without changing habits. Innovate or die, that's the rule in terms of market share. There are many people (developers, designers and users) who thought it was time for some change.
                      That's life and we are many liking it.

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                      • #26
                        I don't like the words hate or hater. Whenever someone uses one of them, to me, it means they know I'm right and don't want to admit it because it angers them.

                        When I first got into Linux I was a KDE3 user. Eventually I went to Gnome 2 in search of a bit more simplicity. I really liked Gnome 2 and have been an Ubuntu user since the 4.10 days. I have tried many other desktops: Unity, XFCE, LXDE and Gnome Shell to name a few. I can use them all, but Unity seems to be the one that feels most like Gnome 2. Sure it is different, but those differences don't feel drastic to me.

                        Gnome Shell feels drastically different in critical ways, such as the activities/desktops metaphor, and hinders my productivity. Sure I can tweak it, but that doesn't fix some of it's inherent design choices that seem to be annoying a large majority of people including me.

                        I think the backlash against Gnome Shell is that people had highly functional desktops running Gnome 2 and Gnome 3 blew that out of the water. They don't have a clear upgrade path that provides similar a experience or functionality and are left with changing DE's or having to adapt to Gnome Shell, which seems to be proving problematic for a lot of people. This is why so many comparisons are made to Gnome 2; it's what people have been using and have become accustomed to. It's not fair to say, "here are the new desktops, stop being so old and stuck in your ways."

                        Emotions run high in these types of talks and it's understandable. Criticism should always be taken with a grain of salt, but never unilaterally dismissed as baseless. Buried under the strongly worded Gnome Shell protests is some real truth, just as their is when assessing any desktop environment.

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                        • #27
                          I feel so much hate in me I think I'm gonna explode

                          I still don't understand why gnome community have not make its best to ease the transition. Introducing a gnome2-like destop compatible with gtk3 then offering gnome-shell. They didn't really take the time to make it clear to old users that gtk2 and every gnome gtk2 applications (including gnome2) were not supported anymore from april 2011.

                          One example of miscommunication from one gnome hacker :
                          http://www.vuntz.net/journal/post/20...e-gnome-panel!

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by rafirafi View Post
                            I still don't understand why gnome community have not make its best to ease the transition. Introducing a gnome2-like destop compatible with gtk3 then offering gnome-shell. They didn't really take the time to make it clear to old users that gtk2 and every gnome gtk2 applications (including gnome2) were not supported anymore from april 2011.
                            This is precisely what they did. GTK3 libs started entering into G2 at least 2 years ago. There's an entire page talking about the switch over on Gnome 2.28 and that came out in what 2009? They had discussions on the implementation of GTK3 a good 6 months to a year before that. How slow do you want them to go? It seems to me that people wanted Gnome to never change, to be frozen in time, which would have been perfect because these same people were moving over to KDE because it was so new and fresh and because of the changes it brought.

                            So far I haven't seen a post so far that has identified a problem with GS itself (aside from the fair criticism of updates to well known apps). I've seen posts around Global Menu (which is Unity). I've seen the nebulous argument about loss of productivity without much explanation as to how. Loss in customisability compared to G2 I'll give you, but productivity? Nope. Last time I checked gnome-panel itself wasn't a application that directly helped me with getting work done. Vim? yes. Firefox? yes. Virtualbox/KVM? yes. Terminal? yup. Nautilus? You betcha. Remote Desktop? Couldn't live without it. Apache? Ya damn right. Gnome-Panel.....??! Are you serious? I'm pretty sure my boss would be pissed if I spent all day adding widgets and applets to Gnome panel all day, or hovered in the Gnome menu without actually opening the application I needed to be working in.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Teho View Post
                              The fact that they do it for free means that they are in no way responsible for you. Simple as that.
                              Wrong, If they wanted to reinvent the wheel again they should have started a side project. One would think that both they and us want to see Linux succeed, but they don't seem to want it to.

                              Originally posted by squirrl View Post
                              The Developer isn't giving you a choice.
                              The Distribution isn't giving you a choice.
                              Where have we seen this before?

                              KDE, GNOME, and everyone else know that distributions are just going to include whatever is the latest.

                              This isn't a hobby anymore guys.
                              It's enterprise.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Some One Pointed out...

                                ... that recently there have been many add-on's for gnome 3. I admit I have not given gnome 3.2 a fair shake. I took one look and it *LOOKED* and felt the same, so I said to myself "been there tried hard, NOPE". So, in fairness, I will give gnome 3.2 another try. The default honestly sucks, I just can not get down to business with it as it ships in fedora 16. So far my impression of Gnome 3 is "Lets fight bitch!" /sigh ...

                                You can call me old if you wish, and you can call me stuck in my ways. I hated XP's fischer price gui... it dumbed things down and moved stuff into really odd places. I spent more time trying to re-find functionality than I did getting stuff done. I loved Windows 2000, every thing just seemed to jump right out at me and say "here I am, use me"... and that was not because I had years of training in using Win2k. It was that way from day 1, the very first time I used it, it was easy to use, made sense, and stayed The Hell Out Of My Way

                                Then came Vista... hey MS finally admitted it sucked, and they very rapidly changed it to Win7 which is much better. I actually kind of like Win7. Don't get me wrong, I do not love Win7 but it is decent. Now Win8 has all kinds of folks up in arms again, so it will be interesting to see what MS does there.

                                By the way, if you think Gnome 3 is produced by folks who do not get paid to produce it, you may want to go take another look. There ARE people whose opinions count towards what gnome 3 is, and what it will become. Those same people sign pay checks that find their way into the hands of gnome devs in a straight up and transparent fashion. All you need to do is go look. Do a google lookup "Paid Gnome Developement" ... second on the list you will find a PDF.

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