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  • Bringing The PackageKit Interface To Ubuntu

    Phoronix: Bringing The PackageKit Interface To Ubuntu

    The PackageKit DBus Interface is coming to Ubuntu 12.04 LTS, but it's not full PackageKit support and integration...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTAxNzU

  • #2
    No systemd is a deal breaker for me!

    I was really hopping that they would, eventually, adopt this powerful framework that brings linux into the 21 century. Instead they decided to wrap up their existing implementation with systemd interfaces. Upstart's architecture is hugely inferior compared to systemd. I hope they 'll chenge their minds after 12.04 LTS is out.

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    • #3
      They're careful not to tell the whole truth, that their software center is all about proprietary software and imposing and enforcing DRM.

      Comment


      • #4
        This is just more of ubuntu's way of doing things;
        take everything you can, but give nothing back.

        They ABSOLUTELY should work to add features to packagekit, rather than just ripping off the parts of it they like and adding it to their proprietary garbage. Shame on ubuntu.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by DaemonFC View Post
          They're careful not to tell the whole truth, that their software center is all about proprietary software and imposing and enforcing DRM.
          It seems they are promoting paid apps, because it gives more revenues to them than just packaging stuff taken from FOSS (and mostly canibalized from Debian project, remember when Mark was just a Debian developer?). Their Ubuntu Software Center is becoming more like App Store and Android Market, they follow the same path.

          People must be VERY careful with projects like a Linux distribution, because those are platforms and they can hide secondary interests (and they do it most of the time).

          Ubuntu needs competition, current projects like Debian should support equivalent solutions and also learn from them in the marketing stuff (but please be more cool and less cheesy).

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          • #6
            Originally posted by timofonic View Post
            Ubuntu needs competition, current projects like Debian should support equivalent solutions and also learn from them in the marketing stuff (but please be more cool and less cheesy).
            I do not think that a lack of competition is the problem, there are many options and there always have been, though you may have a point about the marketing in the sense that many Ubuntu users seem ignorant that there are other options.

            Strangely enough, Linux Mint may actually help with this, even though it started out as simply Ubuntu repackaged with some minor aesthetic and very marginal functional differences. With it getting more popular, all distributions might benefit because it will help break the Ubuntu hegemony delusion.

            I would never have guessed it either, but there it is...

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Hamish Wilson View Post
              I do not think that a lack of competition is the problem, there are many options and there always have been, though you may have a point about the marketing in the sense that many Ubuntu users seem ignorant that there are other options.

              Strangely enough, Linux Mint may actually help with this, even though it started out as simply Ubuntu repackaged with some minor aesthetic and very marginal functional differences. With it getting more popular, all distributions might benefit because it will help break the Ubuntu hegemony delusion.

              I would never have guessed it either, but there it is...
              I did made a point being only a secondary comment of my opinion in this news, that's a nice casuality

              Did you read yourself? Do you understand the common denominator behind all this Linux Distro Wars? Both Ubuntu and Linux Mint aren't the givers to the community, but they cannibalize other manpower from other projects and show it with their own brand, like having two milkshakes being the same but the only with a ribbon on it sells more.

              We live in a world full of stupid consumers, full of shit from the absurd consumerism produced by the modern capitalism . This means products need to be not only better, but also look better. People is lazy and stupid, they aren't able to investigate properly for choosing a product (few people are members of consumerist/users associations or have a strongly developed criteria with at least enough knowledge for it). This is of course a simplification and exageration, of course

              Red Hat is a nice example. While they are sometimes a bunch of bastards too (those giant patches to make lifes of RHEL clones worse plus other tactics), they contribute strongly in the Linux ecosystem in different ways (hired developers and helping to make standards). While they can do some stuff too bad occasionally, they contribute proactivelly and follow the true Free Software philosophy (or most of it).

              What about Canonical? A former Debian developer that got millonaire from dotcom and son of an astronaut that wants to the the Steve Jobs of Linux? He's even too unoriginal, but he lacks another egocentrically insane ego to compete in the same race. He needs proper competence.

              So what we need? An anti-Jo...Shuttleworth? Maybe, but please be properly styled and a nice face! He also needs a proper sense of humour, properly skilled in the technology (a good developer with years of experience but with marketing background, for example), irony, bright personality and eloquence.

              I think older Linux distributions need to reinvent themselves. Not by changing their philosophies but improving their marketing and end-user experience. Big projects like Debian could make desktop oriented forks. Smaller projects could stay in their interesting and specialized niches (distros like Archlinux, Gentoo, Exherbo, OpenWRT and tons more) and merging with bigger projects when adecuate (when there are enough common interests and tasks can be shared from the infraestructure).


              What about this? Does it benefit the original projects or just take resources without a proper feedback? I would like a proper and detailed opinion about this from some veteran and skilled person from the community:

              -Debian
              -- Ubuntu
              -- Linux Mint
              -- aptosid
              -- Vyatta


              - Gentoo
              -- Sabayon Linux
              --Tin Hat
              --VidaLinux
              (Exherbo is a philosophy fork with a framework replacing Portage, so not belongs here)

              - Archlinux
              -- Chakra

              - Fedora
              -- Fusion Linux
              -- Xange

              What do we have? Cool projects, but most of them have bad marketable names. Of course this is more important for desktop (aka end user) oriented distros than specialized ones (security, embedded...).
              Last edited by timofonic; 11-18-2011, 08:18 PM.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by timofonic View Post
                It seems they are promoting paid apps, because it gives more revenues to them than just packaging stuff taken from FOSS (and mostly canibalized from Debian project, remember when Mark was just a Debian developer?). Their Ubuntu Software Center is becoming more like App Store and Android Market, they follow the same path.

                People must be VERY careful with projects like a Linux distribution, because those are platforms and they can hide secondary interests (and they do it most of the time).

                Ubuntu needs competition, current projects like Debian should support equivalent solutions and also learn from them in the marketing stuff (but please be more cool and less cheesy).
                There's nothing wrong with making money.

                I do find the DRM in the Ubuntu store more offensive than the proprietary software though. Can't they compete with Apple without stooping to abusing their users the same way Apple does?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Could you link to something explaining the Ubuntu software center drm? Google claimed it doesn't have any.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by timofonic View Post
                    It seems they are promoting paid apps, because it gives more revenues to them than just packaging stuff taken from FOSS (and mostly canibalized from Debian project, remember when Mark was just a Debian developer?). Their Ubuntu Software Center is becoming more like App Store and Android Market, they follow the same path.

                    People must be VERY careful with projects like a Linux distribution, because those are platforms and they can hide secondary interests (and they do it most of the time).

                    Ubuntu needs competition, current projects like Debian should support equivalent solutions and also learn from them in the marketing stuff (but please be more cool and less cheesy).
                    What is this "Software Center"? I only use Synaptics or GDebi to install software.

                    If you think apt-get is an acceptable method for the masses please go back to eating lead paint chips.

                    Furthermore, every major desktop distro should have a store for proprietary software, if for nothing more to try and make some revenue for upkeep and advancement. Just look at the Steam clones that have started carrying the dreaded closed source*LE GASP* game for Linux, they stand to make quite a profit hawking closed source games made by usually 1-3 guys that guys that where both creative and skilled, which apparently is a combo that is incompatible with OSS game development judging by the dozens of clones of dirt simple games like Tetris or Breakout or going no further then cloning Quake 3 death match... No, Tremulous is no better since apparently nobody bothered to rip off the obvious Aliens/Aliens VS Predator series style gameplay or style. Hell Alien Arena should extend their cornballing to at least the level of OttoMatic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5Uyx3mzYWA
                    Last edited by Kivada; 11-19-2011, 03:54 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Hamish Wilson View Post
                      I do not think that a lack of competition is the problem, there are many options and there always have been, though you may have a point about the marketing in the sense that many Ubuntu users seem ignorant that there are other options.
                      I bet Fedora with modified Gnome3 launcher to work similar to Gnome2 one, would become an Ubuntu killer. At this moment, there's really no choice for Gnome users. Both, Unity and Gnome Shell make launching applications hard and uncomfortable. I used to like Unity, but it started to make me mad after some time. I feel much more comfortable with simple launchers like the one from Win95.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by curaga View Post
                        Could you link to something explaining the Ubuntu software center drm? Google claimed it doesn't have any.
                        Simple. When you purchase proprietary software using Ubuntu Software Center, it only works on X number of computers (decided by the proprietary software vendor), your Ubuntu Single Sign On is required to redownload and reinstall your purchases later, and you don't get a real DEB file that would work on other Debian-based distributions or be used as a local backup.

                        Ubuntu's DRM'd software store has a very Steam-ish DRM. Or to put it another way, A very big steaming pile of anti-user crap. It is the spiritual successor to Linspire and Click n' Run.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by DaemonFC View Post
                          Simple. When you purchase proprietary software using Ubuntu Software Center, it only works on X number of computers (decided by the proprietary software vendor), your Ubuntu Single Sign On is required to redownload and reinstall your purchases later, and you don't get a real DEB file that would work on other Debian-based distributions or be used as a local backup.

                          Ubuntu's DRM'd software store has a very Steam-ish DRM. Or to put it another way, A very big steaming pile of anti-user crap. It is the spiritual successor to Linspire and Click n' Run.
                          So could you theoretically use a filesystem snapshot (or a user-space program) to get a full listing of files that are installed/changed during the proprietary program installation?

                          I seem to remember lunar linux tracking the full list of files installed when installing a program in a similar way so that it could create a full tarball of the final result from when you ran the 'make install' part of program installation. They use it as a way to cache the results for installation on either multiple machines, or as a way to avoid recompiling if you remove/reinstall a program.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by kraftman View Post
                            I bet Fedora with modified Gnome3 launcher to work similar to Gnome2 one, would become an Ubuntu killer. At this moment, there's really no choice for Gnome users. Both, Unity and Gnome Shell make launching applications hard and uncomfortable. I used to like Unity, but it started to make me mad after some time. I feel much more comfortable with simple launchers like the one from Win95.
                            If you need something faster than: top left corner->click on icon on left, then you could always install a launcher like synapse. For that matter, you could use the new dock extension (I say new b/c I just tried it again and they've improved it enormously (still not to where I would use it everyday, mind you, simply b/c I don't open and close new applications often)).
                            Ignoring those options you can always just hit SUPER and start typing then hit enter. That is faster than launching ever was in G2 without a launcher (or if you had your hand on a mouse, in which case I think it might be a bit faster to use the mouse on the panel icons, but once you go into the menu, GS then is faster every time).

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by droidhacker View Post
                              This is just more of ubuntu's way of doing things;
                              take everything you can, but give nothing back.

                              They ABSOLUTELY should work to add features to packagekit, rather than just ripping off the parts of it they like and adding it to their proprietary garbage. Shame on ubuntu.
                              I'm with you here, Droidhacker!

                              Canonical/Ubuntu needs to realize that all of this downstream hackery they do, isn't healthy for the rest of the linux ecosystem. In fact, it is harmful to the rest of the linux ecosystem. Packagekit would benefit if the work were done there, and that would trickle down to other distro's and projects. This would have other added benefits - such as bugs being fixed, by people using other distros, these bugs could be ones that directly affect ubuntu, too.

                              Ubuntu is annoying that way. I mean you look at Unity for example. For the Archer's (ArchLinux users) who have been porting Unity to Archlinux ~ 86 packages have to be patched! (and that isn't 1 patch per package, either) Now, sure some Ubuntu patches obviously won't get accepted upstream, but when you look at just how many downstream patches Canonical/Ubuntu is implementing, it is retarded (mind you, some of them i do use in Arch, like the cairo-ubuntu patches..). Anyway, I really think Canonical/Ubuntu need to really start working closer with upstream ~ re-evaluate this idea that you need to bastardize every app/lib/api/etc with patching, and instead submit more code upstream and work with projects, not against them.

                              cheerz

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