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The KDE vs. GNOME Schism In Free Software

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  • #21
    Man, I keep seeing people complain about DESKTOP environments....

    The reason some Linux Desktop Environments are less focused on pure desktop functionality is because... THEY ARE BEING MADE FOR USERS, NOT DEVELOPERS. And users are going over to a more touch based interface, smaller and more portable devices.

    If Windows 8 X86/64 Tablets do arrive (which I believe will be quite interesting) then Unity/Gnome-Shell/KDE or whatever, will find MORE Touch Devices, and even less new desktops for them to be used on. ALso, ARM Tablets will run Win8, and Linux makers/Distros might want to be able to run on them as well.

    There are many USERS (Ie consumers, not dev's or Multimedia proff's) who have stopped buying new PC's as often, because many of them are quite happy with their iPad x's or the android tablets or WebOS or whatever (though mainly iPads ATM). So for software focusing on consumers, with limited developer resources, the more customizable and advanced interface is being treated second best to more touch intuitive interfaces for other devices.

    Anyway shoot down this post as you want xD
    Last edited by zeealpal; 09-27-2011, 09:17 PM. Reason: Bad grammer

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    • #22
      I love gnome 3 and gnome shell. I've been using the 3.2 beta on both my laptops and I'm normally a kde user.
      Yes it lacks customisations but there's actually very little I want to change. The notification system could be refined a little and I don't like the pop up system tray at all (I'd like to fix it so its only visible when on the activities overview) but other than that gnome-shell does the job I want, in an elegant, fast and as hassle free way.

      The most important things for a gui to do is to allow me to find and open apps fast, and to switch between, and view comfortably the apps that are open. Gnome-shell does this.
      With KDE I'd launch apps by hitting 'ctrl+f1' to open menu then begin typing to bring up the app and hit 'enter' to lunch it. Its almost the same in gnome-shell except I hit the super key. Unitys the same but there's other issues I have with unity that prevents me currently favouring it. I don't miss the old style gnome menu, I don't miss the minimize button and I don't miss kde widgets..... well folder view would be nice.
      Last edited by Nevertime; 09-27-2011, 10:05 PM.

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      • #23
        Originally posted by 89c51 View Post
        I don't care about desktop schism and it doesn't matter much i think. What i find somehow annoying is the toolkit schism -or at least lack of the seamless cooperation between gtk,qt,enlightenment etc. Consistency is important and the lack of it hurts the experience.
        And who do you think develops those toolkits? GTK is a GNOME project, EFL is an Enlightenment project.
        In recent memory, there was not a single effort by GNOME to add at least one integration feature. Adding StatusNotifier to GTK 3.2 would've been a good first step. There wasn't even the sightliest attempt in adding that – instead a HTML5 back-end to eventually run GIMP in a web browser window… great…

        Qt OTOH loads GTK themes just fine.
        KDE develop a Oxygen GTK theme.

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        • #24
          Two things disgust me in Linux. The desktop schism, and Gnome.

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          • #25
            Originally posted by Awesomeness View Post
            Adding StatusNotifier to GTK 3.2 would've been a good first step. There wasn't even the sightliest attempt in adding that.
            Actually there was an attempt. There was even a working patch that would have done it. But other Gnome developers shot the idea down and it was never accepted.

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            • #26
              Originally posted by zeealpal View Post
              Anyway shoot down this post as you want xD
              Two words: plasma active. It will be out well before Windows 8 as well (November, I think). They are also already apparently getting a fair amount of corporate interest for using it in their devices. That is one of the benefits of plasma, they were able to create a radically new interface based on the same underlying framework, meaning all the improvements done for active benefit the desktop and netbook interfaces as well, while Microsoft has had to create an entirely new framework from scratch that apparently doesn't share much, if anything, with the older interface and instead just sits on top of it.

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              • #27
                Originally posted by Awesomeness View Post
                And who do you think develops those toolkits? GTK is a GNOME project, EFL is an Enlightenment project.
                In recent memory, there was not a single effort by GNOME to add at least one integration feature. Adding StatusNotifier to GTK 3.2 would've been a good first step. There wasn't even the sightliest attempt in adding that – instead a HTML5 back-end to eventually run GIMP in a web browser window… great…

                Qt OTOH loads GTK themes just fine.
                KDE develop a Oxygen GTK theme.

                EFL at least has tried to make integration with both QT and GTK
                http://trac.enlightenment.org/e/wiki...djeThemeEngine
                ... unfortunately I do not think that it is very mature.

                I wish the EFL guys will get more contributors (perhaps thanks to the rise of Bodhi).
                Some embedded ports to IOS, Android and Inferno (Hellaphone) might also help...

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by zeealpal View Post
                  The reason some Linux Desktop Environments are less focused on pure desktop functionality is because... THEY ARE BEING MADE FOR USERS, NOT DEVELOPERS. And users are going over to a more touch based interface, smaller and more portable devices.

                  If Windows 8 X86/64 Tablets do arrive (which I believe will be quite interesting) then Unity/Gnome-Shell/KDE or whatever, will find MORE Touch Devices, and even less new desktops for them to be used on. ALso, ARM Tablets will run Win8, and Linux makers/Distros might want to be able to run on them as well.

                  There are many USERS (Ie consumers, not dev's or Multimedia proff's) who have stopped buying new PC's as often, because many of them are quite happy with their iPad x's or the android tablets or WebOS or whatever (though mainly iPads ATM). So for software focusing on consumers, with limited developer resources, the more customizable and advanced interface is being treated second best to more touch intuitive interfaces for other devices.

                  Anyway shoot down this post as you want xD
                  Well, this finally explains why I cannot seem to get used to GNOME 3: I am a developer, using a desktop computer, and without any touch interface; thanks.

                  What puzzles me, however, is that the people who made GNOME 3 (developers, on a desktop computer, one may assume) seem to have forgot about themselves... what desktop environment do you think they use now?

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                  • #29
                    XFCE

                    Martin is obsolete, i use XFCE. Therefore, I'm no longer interested in either project. All i know is both are heavy, memory and cpu/gpu intensive which i don't like.

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                    • #30
                      Originally posted by kraftman View Post
                      The real winner here (and overall in Linux) may be Unity in Ubuntu. It really looks like a product with vision and users in mind.
                      Have to agree. I actually want to try it out when the new Ubuntu is released.

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