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  • Originally posted by Znurre View Post
    Nope, interfaces and header files are very different.
    Interfaces in Java and C# are like abstract classes, except that you can implement several at once.
    In C++, you don't have interfaces, instead you can inherit multiple classes and some of them can be abstract classes, if that is what you want.

    Separating the class declaration (header) from the actual implementation (source) makes the code cleaner.
    Right. Basically, C# gives you a single abstract class you can inherit from, or multiple interfaces. Headers in c++ can be like either. I'm not seeing the big difference.

    Multiple inheritance is indeed pretty unique to c++. There's a reason for that, though - it's generally agreed that no one needs it, and it is one of the toughest bits for c++ compilers to get right so new languages have all basically agreed not to support it.

    Can you explain what it is that you need multiple inheritance for? Requiring header files is generally seen as a big weakness of c++, not a strength.

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    • Originally posted by bwat47 View Post
      Thinking mono is some kind of secret threat to free software is like the people saying obama is a sleeper muslim terrorist.

      Start using some fucking common sense. Mono is based on an open standard and is free software, stop making all these ridiculous claims that its evil.
      There is still the issue of proprietary namespaces being implemented. These namespaces are neither open nor are they widely used on UNIX.

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      • Originally posted by wswartzendruber View Post
        There is still the issue of proprietary namespaces being implemented. These namespaces are neither open nor are they widely used on UNIX.
        Then don't use them, and when Mono gets hit with a lawsuit and eventually removes them your code will still work.

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        • Originally posted by Znurre View Post
          Nope, interfaces and header files are very different.
          Interfaces in Java and C# are like abstract classes, except that you can implement several at once.
          In C++, you don't have interfaces, instead you can inherit multiple classes and some of them can be abstract classes, if that is what you want.

          Separating the class declaration (header) from the actual implementation (source) makes the code cleaner.
          But it also creates a host of other problems: slow compilation (because the headers are reparsed/recompiled every time you include them), circular inclusion issues, double inclusion issues and just plain nastiness (e.g. impossibility to implement proper refactoring tools).

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          • Originally posted by kraftman View Post
            I thought I explained what I meant. BSD is also free software, but it doesn't make it any better. I support Free Software, because I support GPL and Free Software friendly projects.
            Sorry to burst your little bubble, BSD is an FSF-approved license. It's not just free, it's blessed by his holiness himself.

            Freedom to study, modify and redistribute all software, that's what the FSF strives for. Unfortunately, it's obvious that you don't share that goal.

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            • Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
              Right. Basically, C# gives you a single abstract class you can inherit from, or multiple interfaces. Headers in c++ can be like either. I'm not seeing the big difference.

              Multiple inheritance is indeed pretty unique to c++. There's a reason for that, though - it's generally agreed that no one needs it, and it is one of the toughest bits for c++ compilers to get right so new languages have all basically agreed not to support it.

              Can you explain what it is that you need multiple inheritance for? Requiring header files is generally seen as a big weakness of c++, not a strength.
              I don't need multiple inheritance for anything, usually, but sometimes it's a nice way to create a better structure in your project.
              As for why I see header files as a strength, I already explained that it gives cleaner code.
              You can declare members, virtual functions etc. in the header files without polluting the source, and being a very pedantic person I like that.

              I also like that I can press F4 in Qt Creator to change quickly between source and header, for quick navigation in the code.
              Sure. circular inclusions is a bitch, but with just a slight bit of planning you won't run into it.
              And compile times, well it's not really a problem with an i7 and -j 8

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              • Good riddance. Mono is a disease. And no, I don't feel sorry for the devs that can collect unemployment and have novell/microsoft on their resume. They'll be fine.

                The only useful Mono app I can think of is Banshee and there are plenty of alternatives. Oh, and watching the Olympics with silverlight/moonlight was a painful experience that involved VM's, using another computer with Windows, and finally, hacked python scripts, (and lots of cursing intermixed). Any "cross-platform" media streaming solution that makes Flash look good should die a horrible death.

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                • Originally posted by Znurre View Post
                  I don't need multiple inheritance for anything, usually, but sometimes it's a nice way to create a better structure in your project.
                  As for why I see header files as a strength, I already explained that it gives cleaner code.
                  You can declare members, virtual functions etc. in the header files without polluting the source, and being a very pedantic person I like that.
                  For this very limited use case, a C# interface is 100% equivalent. You do not even need to type it by hand (right click -> extract interface in any C# IDE).

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                  • Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
                    For this very limited use case, a C# interface is 100% equivalent. You do not even need to type it by hand (right click -> extract interface in any C# IDE).
                    Yeah, you're right. Again it's just me who prefers a stricter solution.
                    Using interfaces like that seems more like a hack to me :P

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                    • Originally posted by DanL View Post
                      Good riddance. Mono is a disease. And no, I don't feel sorry for the devs that can collect unemployment and have novell/microsoft on their resume. They'll be fine.

                      The only useful Mono app I can think of is Banshee and there are plenty of alternatives. Oh, and watching the Olympics with silverlight/moonlight was a painful experience that involved VM's, using another computer with Windows, and finally, hacked python scripts, (and lots of cursing intermixed). Any "cross-platform" media streaming solution that makes Flash look good should die a horrible death.
                      The trolls just keep streaming in.

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                      • Originally posted by Detructor View Post
                        @kraftman yeh, I've been already told that those KDE/QT things have improved alot...a lot less dependencies to install and stuff.

                        oh and for the ".NET/C# GUIs 'suck' on linux", just take a look at Banshee. It's nice (which Rythmbox is not). It's fast (which Amarok is not) and it's in C#.

                        http://banshee.fm/about/
                        'nuff said
                        Banshee isn't good example, becaue I'm a Amarok fanboy. On my machine Amarok is very fast. I'm not saying C# GUIs suck on Linux, but I don't like ms technology. However, in the tests I saw C# compiled using mono was performing poorly.

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                        • Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
                          Sorry to burst your little bubble, BSD is an FSF-approved license. It's not just free, it's blessed by his holiness himself.
                          Great, you have missed entire point. BSD license sucks and you should know it. It doesn't matter if it's blessed by RMS or not. It simply sucks. You're funny attitude won't help here.

                          Freedom to study, modify and redistribute all software, that's what the FSF strives for. Unfortunately, it's obvious that you don't share that goal.
                          Those are only few goals. You didn't mention the most important one - independence (which you and Novell folks don't care about).

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                          • Originally posted by bwat47 View Post
                            The trolls just keep streaming in.
                            I'm continually amazed by how some people really hate Microsoft. What about Apple, or Oracle?

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                            • Last time I used C# and .Net is a lifetime ago. Don't think I used it beyond version 1 but I loved it, C#, .Net and Visual Studio. It is a great thing for Windows.

                              Buggy programs that could take the whole OS down, computer programmers which were nothing but self taught VB coders, messy GUI libraries, expensive and fractured development environments: C#, .Net and Visual Studio made things a lot better on Windows.

                              Can this be used to improve things for Linux? Sure! But not by copying it wholesale.

                              C# is nice, also for non-Windows coders. But outside Windowsland there was no need to replace VB. Not much need for the CLR either, if necessary you could pile things atop a JVM but languages interoperate already via scripting and there's your managed code too. I wouldn't object to a C# frontend for GCC or C#-bindings for the common C and C++ libraries similar to Python or so but that's quite different from Mono.

                              The rest of .Net? You're kidding right? The interesting bits are only found on Windows and can't be ported to another environment at all. Long story short: there's fuck-all reason for Mono.

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                              • Originally posted by Caesar Tjalbo View Post
                                Can this be used to improve things for Linux? Sure! But not by copying it wholesale.
                                Agreed.

                                The rest of .Net? You're kidding right? The interesting bits are only found on Windows and can't be ported to another environment at all. Long story short: there's fuck-all reason for Mono.
                                Let me give you one: screaming fast scripting engine for games and applications. It's faster than Python, has better tooling than Lua/Angelscript and requires absolutely no patent-encumbered or windows-specific technology.

                                Not only that but the runtime is supported on all interesting platforms (linux/mac/win/xbox/ps3/wii/android/iphone) and is ridiculously easy to embed (unlike .Net which is platform-specific and a bitch to embed).

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