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Mono Developers Go Bye-Bye From Attachmate

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  • #16
    Is there now an alternative solution? Java is Evil ( since oracle ) and Mono is now dead. And sorry Python or C++ is not an alternative or Languages that run in the JVM .

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Nille View Post
      Is there now an alternative solution? Java is Evil ( since oracle ) and Mono is now dead. And sorry Python or C++ is not an alternative or Languages that run in the JVM .
      I know Oracle is doing some nasty stuff but as far as I knew OpenJDK was still FOSS.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by locovaca View Post
        I know Oracle is doing some nasty stuff but as far as I knew OpenJDK was still FOSS.
        I bet Apache or Google say something else. If you Implement your own Runtime and Libary you can be sued by oracle (like google)

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        • #19
          Originally posted by XorEaxEax View Post
          Well, in my opinion the reason Microsoft looked favorably on Mono was because it offered cross platform support for C#/.NET (part of it) which is something it needs to fully compete with Java in the enterprise sector.
          Yeah, that makes sense really.On the other hand, they have been trying to destroy Linux for years, first with FUD, but more recently with legal threats. Initially through their agreement with NOVELL (ironically, already belly up), and more recently attacking Android manufacturers.

          Arguably, they can't support an operating system that they claim violates their IP. They are shooting themselves on the foot really.

          Mono was the perfect solution for them: led by "Linux people" (even though the head of development is fascinated with Microsoft, to say the least), so they could kill the messenger at any time.

          Right now, my best guess is that they'll try to sponsor Mono from the shadows, like they did via NOVELL. How about Nokia? Now they took over another company to destroy, they may as well use them for this.

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          • #20
            I think we need to make a clear distinction between the .NET Framework(TM) and the Common Language Runtime.

            1. The .NET Framework is a commercial, propriety implementation of the open CLR specification.
            2. The .NET Framework includes commercial, proprietary extensions such as Windows Forms, ASP.NET, and ADO.NET.
            3. The .NET Framework includes commercial, proprietary languages such as VB.NET and (I think) F#.

            Saying that .NET is open source is silly at best. What's also silly is Miguel de Icaza's determination to implement said extensions. This is what opened Novell up to patent-based destruction at the hands of Microsoft.

            And that Microsoft Community Promise happens to be legally binding. Microsoft themselves have released portions of their own .NET implementation under the Microsoft Public License, which has been acknowledged by the FSF as a true, open source license.

            I apologize for the tone of my first post.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by movieman View Post
              Why would Microsoft want it to be a viable cross platform solution? They make money on Windows, not C# compilers.
              Actually, they make a shit load off of C# development tools (Visual Studio ain't free, you know.... well, the Express edition is, but it sucks compared to paid for versions), and Visual Studio w/ Mono is a great way to deploy .NET on a server platform that isn't crap.

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              • #22
                Do you know of anyone who actually uses Mono ASP.NET? The whole thing just smells bad to me.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by elanthis View Post
                  Actually, they make a shit load off of C# development tools (Visual Studio ain't free, you know.... well, the Express edition is, but it sucks compared to paid for versions), and Visual Studio w/ Mono is a great way to deploy .NET on a server platform that isn't crap.
                  They make nothing on Visual Studio compared to what they make on Windows. Having everyone take their Windows apps and run them on another OS would be Microsoft's nightmare, not their dream.

                  If Microsoft were supporting Mono, it's because they wanted to use it to undermine Linux, not because they want to sell Visual Studio to Linux developers.

                  BTW, I was using the Express Edition for years and didn't notice any real problems with it. I haven't touched Windows development in a couple of years though.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by movieman View Post
                    They make nothing on Visual Studio compared to what they make on Windows. Having everyone take their Windows apps and run them on another OS would be Microsoft's nightmare, not their dream.

                    If Microsoft were supporting Mono, it's because they wanted to use it to undermine Linux, not because they want to sell Visual Studio to Linux developers.

                    BTW, I was using the Express Edition for years and didn't notice any real problems with it. I haven't touched Windows development in a couple of years though.
                    Almost none of the code you generate in Visual Studio runs on Mono. Mono implements the base libraries but none of the Systems.Windows.Forms libraries (well, legally). GTK# is a completely different beast. The only code you can realistically write in Visual Studio are console apps or dlls.

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                    • #25
                      I can think of one thing

                      Originally posted by wswartzendruber View Post
                      Do you know of anyone who actually uses Mono ASP.NET? The whole thing just smells bad to me.
                      not on ASP.NET but Mono. Unity Game engine runs on Mono and is doing quite well. Granted your games wont' run on Linux but it runs on Mac and Windows. With special licencing, it also runs on Android, iOS, Wii, PS3, XBox360. It also only supports .net languages like Jscript (ms javascript), C#, and Boo.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by movieman View Post
                        If Microsoft were supporting Mono, it's because they wanted to use it to undermine Linux, not because they want to sell Visual Studio to Linux developers.
                        Again, I think they accepted Mono because the cross platform ability it offered helped them compete against Java, and by not extending the 'community promise' to the Microsoft compability stack (windows forms, ado, asp) they would still be able to demand licencing for using those parts of .NET somewhere down the line should C#/.NET make it big on non-windows platforms.

                        Originally posted by movieman View Post
                        BTW, I was using the Express Edition for years and didn't notice any real problems with it. I haven't touched Windows development in a couple of years though.
                        Well, maybe there's more things lacking in the express versions, but I know that they've crippled it as far as optimizations goes, Profile Guided optimization and Link Time optimization is not available in the express versions, same goes for openmp support.

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                        • #27
                          What is with these idiotic mono-hating trolls everywhere? Its just pathetic.

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                          • #28
                            Reading through other sources on the web, as I wanted to get a better overall picture...

                            Attachmate is going to be re-focusing the SuSE Linux-related assets back to Nuremberg (Germany). That's where it will be HQ'ed.

                            As a result of this change, a number of US-based employees will lose their jobs. This just happens to involve a number working on Mono. eg: Miguel de Icaza is based in Boston, Massachusetts.

                            Its up to the management team at Nuremberg to decide if Mono is worth continuing under them. (Maybe Mono development continues in Europe?...I guess that would be good, as software patents are viewed very differently over there.)

                            As for Mono itself, I don't develop cross-platform .Net apps, so I really have no comment on that solution.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by XorEaxEax View Post
                              Again, I think they accepted Mono because the cross platform ability it offered helped them compete against Java, and by not extending the 'community promise' to the Microsoft compability stack (windows forms, ado, asp) they would still be able to demand licencing for using those parts of .NET somewhere down the line should C#/.NET make it big on non-windows platforms.
                              Yes, it was a marketing thing. At the time, a Java marketing point was that it was implemented everywhere, that you weren't tied to a specific company, and that you could write software once and have it work everywhere else. MS didn't want to support a Linux port themselves, but they were happy to allow others to partially support it as it let them tick the checkbox for marketing while still allowing them to claim that you should buy Windows for best results. The same thing happened with Silverlight/Moonlight. Flash's big advantage was that it was installed everywhere, and people were worried about being locked into just Windows - or even just IE. Moonlight allowed MS to argue that Silverlight could be run anywhere Flash could, and simultaneously they could make sure their own implementation integrated best into Windows and IE.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by bwat47 View Post
                                What is with these idiotic mono-hating trolls everywhere? Its just pathetic.
                                I won't be empathizing you when you get your ass sued to a pile of mishmash by Microsoft when you created your entire business based on Mono. Mono is evil, just get over it. No matter how hard you try, it is still based on a corporation that tries to kill you all the time.

                                Lay off all Mono devs, lol good! I like it! Now you mono devs can kiss your ass good bye for 'doing the wrong thing'.

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