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Nokia & Microsoft Get In Bed, Qt & MeeGo Take A Back

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  • Originally posted by FreeBooteR69 View Post
    I'm wonderng how long it will take before Qt is forked? Surely with MS and Nokia ganging up together, they will do whatever it takes to make sure it's platforms are supported, and everything possible to gimp (no pun intended) Qt so it isn't as robust on GNU/Linux systems.
    They can't get away with that one really - people have access to source and will see any intentional gimping of qt. One of the benefits of open source.

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    • If you can bear one more post, I would like to make myself clear. I'm not really trying to argue about any OS here. I have some legitimate objections against Winblow$, but that's not really what this is all about.
      I think that most of us are simply concerned, that current corporate policies have dangerously shifted from "serving the customers" to "screwing the customers". The fact that companies are willing to betray it's most loyal customers for the sake of other company's interests is just sick, because it means that corporations are ruthless.
      This is not a symbiotic behavior of a trustworthy partner (that's who they claim to be), but rather treacherous parasite (that's who they really are). That's what I hate about M$ and the likes so much - they won't hesitate a second to gut you if it makes them profit and they can get away with it.
      Many people seem to think that things have already gone too far and this outrage is nothing else but a warning shot - people that NOKIA let down are giving it one last chance to get things right before they completely turn their backs on it.

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      • Originally posted by tbyte View Post
        Got no idea what their shareholders think or want, after I heard about the deal I bought HTC Desire HD and I was planing to get N900. Especially having in mind the terrible experience that my colleagues had with windows phones in the past windoze is a NO NO NOOO for my phone
        While a massive slump in sales is a pretty clear message, I reiterate my earlier point about continuing to buy non-Windows phones from them in the longer term: if a shiny new phone is making less money than an old Maemo phone*, that should be enough for even the money-grubbing short term profit guys.

        * Not likely with the N900 at this point, I know, but the N9 with MeeGo has been widely anticipated and sounds like it'll be a pretty nice device, so that might be able to pull it off. But this message of liking FOSS and very much not liking W7M is only made if people buy the sort of phone they want more of! When they release a good product, support it. When they release a bad one, steer as many people as possible away from it.

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        • I think the next thing happens to Nokia is that it looses a lot of money, eventually many of nokia professionals will be transfered within M$ and in several years Nokia declares bankruptcy and sells all its patents and technologies(Qt inclusive) to M$.

          From another angle comes Miguel Icaza infecting GTK with its pseudo free pseudo .net and M$ controls both toolkits.

          Then there is only single thing left - Java, which will eventually die in hands of Oracle.

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          • What key technologies are left beside described above?.. Kernel - is getting bigger and more bloated. GCC is being attacked by clang.Xorg is considered bloated and stagnating, Wayland ... maybe Intel and MS meet NDA agreement. So much for linux desktop.

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            • Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
              What key technologies are left beside described above?.. Kernel - is getting bigger and more bloated.
              Ya and??? Big, bloated maybe but it isn't like the days were modularity wasn't found yet.
              GCC is being attacked by clang.
              The sooner the better.
              Xorg is considered bloated and stagnating,
              Not so much "bloated and stagnating" but has been surpassed to more elegant solutions while desktop usage was not seen as a priority. When work finally did start going somewhere they are facing a "painted oneself into a corner" dilemma by trying to maintain too much old stuff for legacy purposes (no matter how few people would still be using such legacy setups).

              So much for linux desktop.
              Until they start catering to the needs and wants of the home user the "linux desktop" will remain a niche crowd with development done by "niche developers".

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              • Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
                Kernel - is getting bigger and more bloated.
                You could say the same thing about the Windows NT kernel. Or the OSX kernel. Etc. I haven't actually seen any problems caused by this yet, unless you can point to them.
                GCC is being attacked by clang.
                Wait, so competition is bad? What's wrong with Clang again?
                Xorg is considered bloated and stagnating,
                It's considered crufty and old - i wouldn't necessarily say bloated. More to the point, that's been true for the last 15 years - and now finally something is being done about it. That's not evidence the linux desktop is dying, it's the opposite.
                Wayland ... maybe Intel and MS meet NDA agreement.
                Huh? I don't get that reference.

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                • Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
                  What key technologies are left beside described above?.. Kernel - is getting bigger and more bloated. GCC is being attacked by clang.Xorg is considered bloated and stagnating, Wayland ... maybe Intel and MS meet NDA agreement. So much for linux desktop.
                  Nice try. The funny thing is Kernel is becoming faster and faster while other stay in place or slow down. GCC just kills clang in performance. Great times are comming for Linux. Qt and KDE ftw!

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                  • looks like pridicably plan b fail miserably

                    http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/...hip-dies-death

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                    • Originally posted by kraftman View Post
                      GCC just kills clang in performance.
                      Were do you have those numbers? And what version of Clang? It would be interesting to see the data behind that statement.

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                      • Originally posted by Azpegath View Post
                        Were do you have those numbers? And what version of Clang? It would be interesting to see the data behind that statement.
                        http://phoronix.com/forums/showthrea...-Final-results

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                        • But I have seen other comparisons, where Clang (LLVM) by far outperformed GCC.
                          http://clang.llvm.org/performance.html

                          Perhaps their own website is far from objective, but it's interesting to see several different sources.

                          http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...num=1&single=1
                          For instance, shows quite even results.

                          But a lot of people don't focus on the performance of their compiler if there are other factors that make it a lot more beneficial to use, for instance SANE compiler output. GCC has been horrible at this previously, but I'm happy to say that it seems to be improving since Clang/LLVM came around.
                          Perhaps it's good to have some energizing competition?

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                          • Originally posted by Azpegath View Post

                            But a lot of people don't focus on the performance of their compiler if there are other factors that make it a lot more beneficial to use, for instance SANE compiler output. GCC has been horrible at this previously, but I'm happy to say that it seems to be improving since Clang/LLVM came around.
                            Perhaps it's good to have some energizing competition?
                            I guess many more people prefer performance over output. btw. clang can be used on Linux as well, so double win for L.

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                            • Originally posted by Azpegath View Post
                              Perhaps it's good to have some energizing competition?
                              I think there's no room for any "perhaps" - definitely! Even this NOKIA partnership with the devil can ultimately be beneficial:
                              If it flops, then we have one less M$ ditch-digger to worry about and others will be less likely to fall for such deals in the future.
                              If it actually gains them any more market share, it will most likely scare the crap out of the others and make them double the efforts to further improve their stuff even if it's just for good measure.
                              Healthy competition is good for everyone as many people are way too lazy to do anything but finding excuses to keep sitting on their hands without it, especially the ones driven by money - you know, putting out only the fires that really burn is one of the most popular ways to maximize the profit out there.

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                              • On the bright side, if the windows phones don't sell very well relative to it's predecessors, then maybe windows phones will be stuck with a lingering bad reputation as well as Microsoft hopefully out of some money from their subsidizing Nokia's windows conversion.

                                I'd love to buy a MeeGo phone to support the platform. Unfortunately, the only MeeGo phone out there and most MeeGo phones likely to be developed in the near term use GSM. Unfortunately, my mobile carrier, Sprint, (as well as Verizon, the cell phone carrier with the highest US market share) uses CDMA.

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