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Version 1.0 Of Enlightenment Foundation Libraries

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  • #16
    Originally posted by 89c51 View Post
    The adoption (in distros etc) i think has to do with not being release quality and by that i mean that although it was stable a lot of things could have changed until its official release.

    What is also needed is native apps in order to be able to built a complete Desktop environment. Some might argue with native but IMO if you want to offer a pleasant quality experience you don't want your desktop to look like a patchwork.

    What i would love to see in the future is: e17-XUL for mozilla apps (firefox integration and why not thinderbird), an xmms2 frontend (yes i know xmms2 is not ready), mplayer frontend, frontend for telepathy (for IM, VOIP, the lot), text editor, photo editor/manager, libre office integration, little tools here and there (ie. pulse audio mixer) etc.
    The question is, what did they do wrong?

    KDE and Gnome weren't always this big - they picked up momentum over the years and kept growing. Even XFce came out of nowhere and made a place for itself without having any of the things you mentioned at the time. Regardless of usage numbers Enlightenment and Fluxbox had the biggest buzz in the Linux community at one point. They were the hot cool different window managers to use.

    So what happened? What misstep kept them from relevancy?

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Joe Sixpack View Post
      So what happened? What misstep kept them from relevancy?
      I think you've answered your own question. They weren't moving fast enough. What I heard from someone who looked into EFL development is that Rasterman is a bit of a perfectionist. And there's nothing wrong with that. If he wanted to spend more time just getting things right, fair play to him. It may not have taken off on the desktop but I think it's great that it's found its niche in the embedded market.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Joe Sixpack View Post
        The question is, what did they do wrong?

        KDE and Gnome weren't always this big - they picked up momentum over the years and kept growing. Even XFce came out of nowhere and made a place for itself without having any of the things you mentioned at the time. Regardless of usage numbers Enlightenment and Fluxbox had the biggest buzz in the Linux community at one point. They were the hot cool different window managers to use.

        So what happened? What misstep kept them from relevancy?
        i don't think they did something wrong. They just didn't have to push "stable" releases. From my POV it was more of a side project than something needed for the desktop stack. In other words nothing was dependent on e17 (at least in linux desktop).

        I have no idea how easy/attractive is for developers to write Apps in EFL but now that the interfaces are not changing (stable core) things might change and the whole thing might gain momentum. Its up to the E17 people/community and what they want to achieve with it.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by 89c51 View Post
          I have no idea how easy/attractive is for developers to write Apps in EFL but now that the interfaces are not changing (stable core) things might change and the whole thing might gain momentum. Its up to the E17 people/community and what they want to achieve with it.
          Very easy, I gather. I remember seeing an example of a basic DVD player written in just a few dozen lines of C several years ago.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Awesomeness View Post
            It's not magic. It's just human psychology.
            “Release early, release often” attracts testers and developers alike.
            If you refuse to give it a stable version number, you also refuse to promise to not reshuffle the whole software source code from one day to the next and break everything in one go.

            If 0.17 is usable, they should just ship the current state as Beta 1 and then over the course of 6 months ship 3 additional Betas, 2 RCs, and then release that thing.
            Then they should take 6 to 12 additional months to tighten up the loose ends and get 1.00 out of the door.
            And then instead of endless release delays, they should delay features, not releases. A 6 months release cycle served both KDE and GNOME very well.
            You can't compare Enlightenment with KDE and GNOME. Both KDE and GNOME have fairly large teams of developers working on their respective projects while E17, although having a few other developers over the years, has largely been been the creation of one person, Rasterman. Frankly I have no problem with the project's "It Will Be Done When It's Done" approach rather than a hard timeline. After all a hard timeline is what produced abominations like KDE 4.0X and 4.1X, and I like KDE.

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            • #21
              Enlightenment looks pretty good, except that from what I've seen, it has a distinctly 90s look to it. Have they started to integrate animations and effects like Gnome and KDE have in recent years? Making a new desktop that is bereft of eye candy is unlikely to get much adoption, since everyone from Microsoft to Apple to Google has been laying it on thick with composited interfaces with "whizzy" effects. I guess you could still win over the Puppy Linux / DamnSmallLinux crowd with a simple interface, but XFCE and LXDE have already completely cornered that market IMO.

              Still, more choices isn't a bad thing. The "point" of the project, if nothing else, is to have fun and release free software -- if it actually has users on top of that, it's a plus.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by allquixotic View Post
                Enlightenment looks pretty good, except that from what I've seen, it has a distinctly 90s look to it. Have they started to integrate animations and effects like Gnome and KDE have in recent years?
                Its probably the official theme that has TOOOOO much "blink" making it look cheap as an end result. I find that both the previous Gold and the current Black and White lack elegance.

                I remember however that E17 had animations and stuff waaaaaaaaaaay before kde and gnome

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                • #23
                  I concur, back then e17 looked the best. Unless allquixotic is talking about 3d / compiz effects, that is. It was also the "heavy" wm, kinda like kwin and metacity are now.
                  Now though, I bet e17 is lighter than the lxde/openbox environment.

                  It's light and looks good, if you ask me what it lacked and lacks is releases.

                  If you need a vid, take a look at the propaganda video of elive. It looks very good there.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by mirv View Post
                    Changing the numbering system won't do much - making it 1.00 doesn't magically make something "stable".
                    in terms of a library it often means that the API will be stable (not changing). this is good news for people building apps based on them.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by allquixotic View Post
                      Enlightenment looks pretty good, except that from what I've seen, it has a distinctly 90s look to it. Have they started to integrate animations and effects like Gnome and KDE have in recent years? Making a new desktop that is bereft of eye candy is unlikely to get much adoption, since everyone from Microsoft to Apple to Google has been laying it on thick with composited interfaces with "whizzy" effects. I guess you could still win over the Puppy Linux / DamnSmallLinux crowd with a simple interface, but XFCE and LXDE have already completely cornered that market IMO.
                      I tried E17 a few months ago and it's very very slick. It's extremely impressive, given it's minuscule size - I'd say its effects look quite close to KDE/kwin. There's really no comparison with LXDE and the like. E17 is aeons ahead.

                      (That's my impression after a few hours of use).

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
                        I tried E17 a few months ago and it's very very slick. It's extremely impressive, given it's minuscule size - I'd say its effects look quite close to KDE/kwin. There's really no comparison with LXDE and the like. E17 is aeons ahead.

                        (That's my impression after a few hours of use).
                        Oh! I guess you can't really see animated effects from still screenshots, eh? That must be why I wasn't impressed. Silly me! I'll look for a video of a recent Enlightenment build being shown off. Not that I'm likely to switch from Gnome, but I might try it to broaden my horizons!

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by allquixotic View Post
                          Oh! I guess you can't really see animated effects from still screenshots, eh? That must be why I wasn't impressed. Silly me! I'll look for a video of a recent Enlightenment build being shown off. Not that I'm likely to switch from Gnome, but I might try it to broaden my horizons!
                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWpQS-4k1E0

                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoYKvjNj8OM

                          those were uploaded about a month ago

                          enjoy.

                          (needs a bit more polishing in the graphic department ie icons theme etc)

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by 89c51 View Post
                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWpQS-4k1E0

                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoYKvjNj8OM

                            those were uploaded about a month ago

                            enjoy.

                            (needs a bit more polishing in the graphic department ie icons theme etc)
                            Looks snappy.
                            And "slide pointer to new window" is neat. Can other WMs do that?

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by sirdilznik View Post
                              You can't compare Enlightenment with KDE and GNOME. Both KDE and GNOME have fairly large teams of developers working on their respective projects while E17, although having a few other developers over the years, has largely been been the creation of one person
                              That's exactly the point I was trying to make: Why do you think GNOME and KDE are large teams? They release stuff. That's why.
                              Maybe he doesn't want other developers. If that's the case, his approach is the perfect way to ensure nobody will ever be interested in Enlightenment.

                              Originally posted by sirdilznik View Post
                              Frankly I have no problem with the project's "It Will Be Done When It's Done" approach rather than a hard timeline. After all a hard timeline is what produced abominations like KDE 4.0X and 4.1X, and I like KDE.
                              If there is an abomination then it's Enlightenment's development procedure.
                              KDE proved that despite criticism KDE 4.0 was helping the project overall. Always postponing releases only leads to problems: Developers leave, new ones don't get attracted, nobody uses the software.

                              If the main Enlightenment developer only wants to do his thing and don't work in a team, fine. Then I take back all my negative comments because he does it exactly as he likes.
                              In the meantime KDE grew from an ambitious project of a handful of developers into one of the biggest FOSS communities in the world.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Thats a nice tight coherent developed system, I bet it'll see some fairly wide adoption.

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