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  • #16
    Originally posted by DeepDayze View Post
    Amen. Michael's work is a great service to the kernel devs as it highlights issues that negatively impact the kernel long before it goes live
    so where is the email from Michael to lkml reporting that bug? Oh wait! It was never sent!

    The 'issue' was found independently by several people. But the only one who did nothing about it but writing an acerbic article was Michael. There is no service in doing so. Quite the opposite. Acting like this hurts linux development.

    Next time report bugs first, then write article. Then there might be any worth in phoronix testing.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by bulletxt View Post
      I'm getting sick of people complaining about Michael's work.
      They really don't realize how is work somehow contributes to the Linux world.

      I'm sure though that the Linux Kernel developers appreciate his work, and that's the only thing that matters.
      no, they don't appreciate 'his work'.

      http://marc.info/?l=linux-kernel&m=127535359014939&w=2

      Well thats kinda obvious, its "journalism" in the days of google
      adwords. They make revenue by making people click on their website,
      they don't make money being useful or interacting with others.
      Phoronix in all the years I've been dealing with them as the only
      place doing any reporting on graphics, have never once confirmed a
      source, asked for information directly or anything you'd expect from
      real journalists, again because that doesn't drive page hits, whereas
      sensationalist useless headlines are the main point of the site.

      Dave.


      And David Airlie's work has been constantly mentioned here.

      If you don't report the bugs you see, all you do is worthless for kernel devs. And if you write inflammatory articles instead, you are hurting development actively.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by energyman View Post
        no, they don't appreciate 'his work'.

        http://marc.info/?l=linux-kernel&m=127535359014939&w=2

        Well thats kinda obvious, its "journalism" in the days of google
        adwords. They make revenue by making people click on their website,
        they don't make money being useful or interacting with others.
        Phoronix in all the years I've been dealing with them as the only
        place doing any reporting on graphics, have never once confirmed a
        source, asked for information directly or anything you'd expect from
        real journalists, again because that doesn't drive page hits, whereas
        sensationalist useless headlines are the main point of the site.

        Dave.


        And David Airlie's work has been constantly mentioned here.

        If you don't report the bugs you see, all you do is worthless for kernel devs. And if you write inflammatory articles instead, you are hurting development actively.
        It is not Michael's job to report bugs. His job is to run this site.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by zoomblab View Post
          It is not Michael's job to report bugs. His job is to run this site.
          I do like there being some automated tests. That's great, it's nice, it could be very useful.
          But the article was misleading at best, and closer to trouble making and trolling than that. The reasons why have already been thoroughly discussed. And if the phoronix test suite is going to be useful to kernel development and catching bugs in general (like phoronix keeps harping on about) then they've got to show how useful it can be - and that involves reporting bugs.
          Credit where credit is due (great work on the test suite and all), but criticism where it's due as well.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by mirv View Post
            I do like there being some automated tests. That's great, it's nice, it could be very useful.
            But the article was misleading at best, and closer to trouble making and trolling than that. The reasons why have already been thoroughly discussed. And if the phoronix test suite is going to be useful to kernel development and catching bugs in general (like phoronix keeps harping on about) then they've got to show how useful it can be - and that involves reporting bugs.
            Credit where credit is due (great work on the test suite and all), but criticism where it's due as well.
            ++

            Oh and BTW stop being PUSSIES and take it like a man - I'm not trying (or in any way) am directly offending Michael or anyone of you

            take/see constructive criticism as a gift and opportunity to improve instead of an opportunity to whine and taking offense in statements where there is no insult

            how goes the saying: with great power comes great responsibility ?

            and in this context responsibility means reporting it to the devs

            if you're not willing to post a lengthy article on lkml or any other well-known group just post a short message & link to this article and that should be enough

            why on earth is anyone in the F/OSS world so quickly hurt in their "pride" ?

            Comment


            • #21
              PTS feature idea

              @Michael:

              What about adding an option to the automated tests to send an e-mail to a given mailing list if there was a speed change in one/some benchmarks.

              Something like this: kernel regression found (e.g. speed regression > 10%)
              Automatic e-mail to lkml which says when the regression was found and in which test(s) and hardware configuration.

              Still not as good as automatic bisecting, but a good next step.
              Of course, you could send an e-mail if there is a speed increase.

              Then you can write articles like "Huge regression was found and fixed thanks to PTS" which is a better advertisement.


              Just my 2 cents...

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by zoomblab View Post
                It is not Michael's job to report bugs. His job is to run this site.

                wrong. If you are part of the linux ecosystem you can choose one of two roles:

                contributor
                or
                parasite

                reporting the bugs you find is the minimum you can do. On the other hand it is not the kernel dev's job to scan phoronix articles for some information that might give a hint of a bug somewhere. You find a bug, you report it. That was the deal from the beginning. Writing agressive articles without any hint where the bug might be just hurts the basis you are living from.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by energyman View Post
                  wrong. If you are part of the linux ecosystem you can choose one of two roles:

                  contributor
                  or
                  parasite
                  And when I am promoting Linux to friends and family while using it but not reporting bugs what does that make me(take note that I promote the thing to users that won't report bugs or do anything else except using the thing=parasites?=normal users)?

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by SkyHiRider View Post
                    And when I am promoting Linux to friends and family while using it but not reporting bugs what does that make me(take note that I promote the thing to users that won't report bugs or do anything else except using the thing=parasites?=normal users)?
                    a parasite that informs other parasites of a victim? but seriously, if you don't report bugs, you don't have any right to complain.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by energyman View Post
                      a parasite that informs other parasites of a victim? but seriously, if you don't report bugs, you don't have any right to complain.
                      Ahh, how poetic, wanted to hear that from you. So you are against the use of Linux by users that just want to use their pc for fun and work but lack any advanced knowledge about pc's in general?

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        I am against turning Linux into windows.
                        http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm

                        if you are not contributing - why should anybody care if you use linux or not? If you don't even report bugs, you have zero right to complain about them.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Well, Linux is not Windows and that's why I like it more - it's a welcomed change. And complaining about something too is a form of bug reporting, you send out what you miss/dislike and if the right ears hear your plea you contribute a little bit at least.

                          And in todays world of Android, Chromium os and others saying what you are saying strikes me as odd, as there will be more and more users that just use the thing for it's reach features and performance and usability benefits. Saying they have no right to complain is also odd, as they are users and use the system legally so they can complain all they want, its a free world today for the best or for the worst. If you do not like the fact that everyone can use it than change the license your software uses, should have thought about it before using a form of GPL or other such license for your sw.

                          I'm all up for a discussion on irc whenever you feel like it, as its a good place as any for a nice open minded discussion (also don't wish to spam the forum too much).

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            if you buy an android phone, you paid someone to care about your trouble. If you use chromium os google paid for that - and you are paying watching ads. But if you just write an inflammatory article, without giving the devs even a chance to find or fix the mess, you overstepped a line.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Well, at least they know there is a mess to begin with, and at least they have an independent person that is testing their stuff from a possibly different point of view that might provide different insight on the thing. It's not that bad really, just need to look at the bright side of it.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                they had people reporting a problem, even bisecting it. That is 'they know about the mess' and not 'oh noes, there is a problem, but we don't tell the people who can fix it'. So phoronix was completely useless.

                                Comment

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