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  • #76
    @kebabbert: can you PLEASE open a new thread to discuss whatever you want to discuss? This is the BFS scheduler thread so let's not derail it any further.

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by kebabbert View Post
      This is interesting. Can you back up your claims? If it is true that half of Linux 11 MloC is drivers, then it is not as bad as I thought. And NTs codebase of 10MloC is almost purely Kernel code? Can you back that up?
      So you don't even know what are you been saying all along? You can keep bashing Linux all you want and whine about "bloat", but its not going to help your credibility if you don't know what your talking about.

      Come on, 11 M LoC of kernel code is TOO much. That is a fact. I think Linus T can trim the Kernel down. Which it needs badly.
      Of course there are lines of code in kernel. It supports something like 50 different cpu archs and gazzillion drivers out of box. Scales from cellphone to supercomputer. You think those come from free? When your precious Solaris support 50 cpu arcs and same amount of hardware as Linux, then we can have this conversation again.

      You should really think if your trolling is going to help Solaris. Bashing Linux isn't going to help Solaris. When your mind is saying "Now I have to go [insert forum] troll about how bad Linux is!" instead you should think how you can help Solaris without bashing Linux or any other OS.

      DISCLAIMER: English is not my native language.

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by Zetbo View Post
        Of course there are lines of code in kernel. It supports something like 50 different cpu archs and gazzillion drivers out of box. Scales from cellphone to supercomputer. You think those come from free? When your precious Solaris support 50 cpu arcs and same amount of hardware as Linux, then we can have this conversation again.
        The difference is just Linux archive is big (I don't see there's something wrong with package being big) and Slowlaris kernel is bloated. Linux kernel you run isn't big or bloated. You just have to download some more data and then you use maybe 1/5 or much, much less (so it's really slim ). Oh, Slowlaris is big, fat, slow, bloated [...] and almost dead cow :> He won't be able to help


        @BlackStar

        I recommended this idiot the same some time ago, but you know... he's a troll or he's incredibly dumb. :>

        He sometimes just wash his trolls face and masks it behind some idiotic questions.
        Last edited by kraftman; 09-26-2009, 04:56 AM.

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by Zetbo View Post
          So you don't even know what are you been saying all along? You can keep bashing Linux all you want and whine about "bloat", but its not going to help your credibility if you don't know what your talking about.
          What do you mean I dont know what I talk about? I claim that Linux kernel is 11 MLoC. I have said this all the time. I have also claimed that Linus T thinks the Linux kernel is bloated. Are these things I claim, not true? Is the Linux kernel in fact 2 MLoC when I claim it is 11MloC - which would show that I do not know what I claim? Has Linus T said that kernel is slim - which would show that I do not know what I talk about?

          Remember, all the things I claim, I have collected from sources such as Linux kernel devs, articles, etc. I can ALWAYS post them links. I never make up anything. I can ALWAYS prove my claims. Remember that I am merely collecting links, and post them here. These are not my own opinions - because I never looked into the Linux source code. I dont have time to build an own opinion on Linux code. I read what others say. If they say Linux code is good, then I post that claim instead. But not many guru programmers thinks so. Five broken sound APIs is scary. Linux should be cleaned up.

          If people says Vista is a piece of shit, I dont try it. I dont have time to try Vista out. I listen to what others, gurus say. If they say Windows 7 is good, I am willing to try that. If they say Linux is bloated, I have no reason to believe they are lying, specially when Linus T says so.



          Blackstar,
          You are right. Sorry for this. I will try to post no more off topic, again. But other people keep adressing me.

          Hey you guys, if you want to discuss off topic with me, please PM me or start a new thread. I will enter that thread.

          Back to on topic. I have installed latest Ubuntu in VirtualBox to try Linux out. So far I must say that Ubuntu and OpenSolaris are awfully similar. The only difference is that OpenSolaris is blue and Ubuntu is brown. Other than that, they look exactly identical. It seems that the step from OpenSolaris to Ubuntu is very small, all knowledge from OpenSolaris I can apply to Ubuntu at once. I know that OpenSolaris has copied the desktop feeling from Ubuntu.

          Are there any easy instructions how to apply this BFS patch so I can try Con Kolivas patch out? He seems to have fresh ideas, I would like to try out.
          Last edited by kebabbert; 09-26-2009, 05:43 AM.

          Comment


          • #80
            Turning idiots filter on. I wonder who would like to talk with a moron even in another thread...

            Back to on topic. I have installed latest Ubuntu in VirtualBox to try Linux out. So far I must say that Ubuntu and OpenSolaris are awfully similar. The only difference is that OpenSolaris is blue and Ubuntu is brown. Other than that, they look exactly identical. It seems that the step from OpenSolaris to Ubuntu is very small, all knowledge from OpenSolaris I can apply to Ubuntu at once. I know that OpenSolaris has copied the desktop feeling from Ubuntu.
            ...

            Are there any easy instructions how to apply this BFS patch so I can try Con Kolivas patch out? He seems to have fresh ideas, I would like to try out.
            You proved what I said:

            He sometimes just wash his trolls face and masks it behind some idiotic questions
            It's sad there's no option to make some idiots shut up.
            Last edited by kraftman; 09-26-2009, 06:01 AM.

            Comment


            • #81
              You would see bigger differences if you had an ATi display adapter card...

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by Kebabbert
                I never get an good answer on my questions.
                Originally posted by Svartalf
                It could be because your tone in your posting...Backing up, calming down, and doing what you just did would and will help.
                Well, you sound cool and wise, like the blind kung-fu master. Now, are you really being fair here? You are advising the guy who received all sorts of insults for posting his views to 'back up' and 'calm down' to 'help' with the situation. So as long as somebody shares in some sense the position held by some loud group here it is fine to do name calling and label others as trolls. On the other hand, if you happen to say something not accepted by the hard liners you better back up or get the fuck out (you, your links, and the dirty money you got from MS, it seems).


                Originally posted by Kebabbert
                Question: I am actually only collecting links from Linux kernel devs and present them here. I paste links from Linux kernel devs here. And also links from articles on the internet. Am I lying or Trolling or FUDing then? Yes or no? Can I get an answer, yes or no? Is it Trolling or FUDing to paste links? Yes or no?
                Originally posted by Svartalf
                Depends on what you're precisely doing.

                [snip welcomed technical bit] Taking an aggressive position on bloat and using that comparison can look like FUD or Trolling and it's been a game of the people who DO that thing in the MS camp.
                Aggressive in terms of what? Why do you label Kebabbert's posts as aggressive while completely ignoring the terms and tone of the replies he got? Also, that somebody, somewhere, at some point, "[DID] that thing in the MS camp" is absolutely irrelevant. If anything, instead of affecting Kebabbert's claims, it should cast a shadow of doubt on the others, who should be wondering whether they are not misjudging him only because their own prejudices.

                FOR THE LOGIC-IMPAIRED: defending Kebabbert's right to be treated fairly here does nothing to do with a) this thread's on-topic discussion; b) this thread's off-topic discussion.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by kebabbert View Post
                  Back to offtopic.
                  I think this is more like it.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by yotambien View Post
                    ...
                    Trolls master came back! Or maybe not? Cause you both are Phoronix members now and you both are the biggest trolls I ever saw (almost :>).

                    You always came when Kebbabert is trolling. What a dumbs... Oh, he/you is treated very fair, as trolls should be treated. Better option would be just ignoring such sick people, but to make this work everyone should do this. Btw. you can't even imagine why I have lot of fun from reading your sick bull. I look deeper you can't even realize. :> Btw. you "both" match to troll definition.
                    Last edited by kraftman; 09-26-2009, 08:13 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Kraftman,
                      Maybe yotambien and I are the same person?

                      Anyway, please let us stop this and respect Blackstar. He has a very valid comment, let us go on topic. If someone wants to discuss Linus T claim that Linux is bloated, or any other links I have posted here, feel free to PM me or to start a thread. If you start a thread, post the name of the thread here so I know, please.



                      On Topic. I have actually never tried to patch Linux kernel. Are there any easy instructions how to apply Con's patches on the net? Has anyone else tried Cons BFS? How is it? What is your impression?

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by kebabbert View Post
                        Kraftman,
                        Maybe yotambien and I are the same person?

                        Anyway, please let us stop this and respect Blackstar. He has a very valid comment, let us go on topic. If someone wants to discuss Linus T claim that Linux is bloated, or any other links I have posted here, feel free to PM me or to start a thread. If you start a thread, post the name of the thread here so I know, please.
                        Who knows As you wish

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by kebabbert View Post
                          Originally posted by Svartalf
                          The claim that the kernel itself is 11Mloc and comparing it to NT's 10Mloc is comparing apples to grapefruits. NT's codebase is almost purely KERNEL code. Linux' codebase is nearly half drivers. Taking an aggressive position on bloat and using that comparison can look like FUD or Trolling and it's been a game of the people who DO that thing in the MS camp.

                          This is interesting. Can you back up your claims? If it is true that half of Linux 11 MloC is drivers, then it is not as bad as I thought. And NTs codebase of 10MloC is almost purely Kernel code? Can you back that up?
                          http://www.techworld.com.au/article/...er_code_climbs
                          It actually says that while for a while the amount of drivers in kernel code and the amount of everything else was 50-50, after 2.6.27 the drivers share became over 60% and from 2.6.30-2.6.31 specifically, it became 76% for drivers+firmware.
                          Now, if you combine the above link with that one http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08...opment_report/ which (including others) it says that kernel-2.6.11 had 6.6 millions of lines while kernel-2.6.30 had 11.6 millions, it's easy to understand the amount of millions of code that belongs exclusively to drivers.

                          Also, with kernel-2.6.31 Linux became the first OS which supports USB-3.0. Do you think this is a matter of a few dozens of lines? Now, if the adoption of the latest technology is considered a bloat, then I'd prefer to use the most bloated system ever.

                          Is it now as bad as you thought? (your words)
                          I just posted links as you do as well and one of the two was Torvalds' words.
                          But do you know what the weird thing is? I needed much more time to make this post rather than find the above links. So I'm sure you could find them as easy if you wanted. Maybe you just didn't intent to?

                          edited Very interesting link whowriteslinux.pdf
                          edited again 2.6.32-rc1 67% drivers and 10% firmware. Even higher than the previous one...
                          I hope to be abvious now that the vast amount of Linux kernel is consistent from drivers. Like this, I hope one day to catch the 30 millions of lines!

                          And for last time coz I was bored... 2.6.27
                          Programs like SLOCCount can be used to inspect the Linux kernel's source code in more detail. According to this tool, the source code line count is not 9 million but exactly 6,399,191 (Source Lines of Code/SLOC), as the program doesn't count blank lines, comments and several other types of input. More than half of the lines are part of hardware drivers; the second largest chunk is the arch/ directory which contains the source code of the various architectures supported by Linux.

                          So, if more than 50% of kernel-2.6.27 are drivers and after 2.6.27 the added drivers were over 60% and 76% and 77% for the last two releases, with combination that the latest kernels add more lines than the previous ones and with combination with the fact that the second largest part belongs to arch with the 50+ architectures which Linux supports, then I think we can say that drivers+arch consist more than 70% of Linux kernel!

                          I hope that's enough!
                          Last edited by Apopas; 09-28-2009, 09:44 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Back on topic

                            I tried to aply the BFS patch in 2.6.31.1 but I'm getting this:
                            gentoo linux-2.6.31-gentoo-r1 # patch -p1 < 2.6.31-sched-bfs-240.patch
                            patching file Documentation/sysctl/kernel.txt
                            patching file fs/pipe.c
                            patching file include/linux/init_task.h
                            patching file include/linux/sched.h
                            patching file kernel/sched.c
                            patching file kernel/sysctl.c
                            Hunk #3 succeeded at 259 (offset 18 lines).
                            Hunk #4 succeeded at 692 (offset 18 lines).
                            patching file kernel/workqueue.c
                            patching file kernel/sched_fair.c
                            patching file kernel/sched_idletask.c
                            patching file kernel/sched_rt.c
                            patching file kernel/sched_bfs.c
                            patching file kernel/Makefile
                            patching file kernel/kthread.c
                            patching file kernel/posix-cpu-timers.c
                            patching file kernel/exit.c
                            patching file kernel/fork.c
                            patching file mm/oom_kill.c
                            patching file init/Kconfig
                            patching file kernel/delayacct.c
                            patching file kernel/trace/trace.c
                            patching file fs/proc/base.c
                            patching file kernel/sched_debug.c
                            patching file include/linux/ioprio.h
                            patching file Makefile
                            Hunk #1 FAILED at 1.
                            1 out of 1 hunk FAILED -- saving rejects to file Makefile.rej
                            patching file kernel/Kconfig.preempt
                            patching file kernel/timer.c
                            Any idea what's going wrong?

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Apopas View Post
                              Back on topic

                              I tried to aply the BFS patch in 2.6.31.1 but I'm getting this:


                              Any idea what's going wrong?
                              Well I'd suggest you to take a look at Makefile.rej and if you can't make any sense of it yourself pastebin it and post it here.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Zhick View Post
                                Well I'd suggest you to take a look at Makefile.rej and if you can't make any sense of it yourself pastebin it and post it here.
                                Here it is:
                                ***************
                                *** 1,7 ****
                                VERSION = 2
                                PATCHLEVEL = 6
                                SUBLEVEL = 31
                                - EXTRAVERSION =
                                NAME = Man-Eating Seals of Antiquity

                                # *DOCUMENTATION*
                                --- 1,7 ----
                                VERSION = 2
                                PATCHLEVEL = 6
                                SUBLEVEL = 31
                                + EXTRAVERSION = -bfs240
                                NAME = Man-Eating Seals of Antiquity

                                # *DOCUMENTATION*

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