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WINE 1.1.21 Starts On Shader Model 4 Support

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  • WINE 1.1.21 Starts On Shader Model 4 Support

    Phoronix: WINE 1.1.21 Starts On Shader Model 4 Support

    The release two weeks ago of WINE 1.1.20 brought some cleaner Direct3D code, but there really was not much to get overly excited about. The release of WINE 1.1.21, however, is different...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=NzI1Mg

  • #2
    decent. Unfortunately DX10 games would run admirably slow on even the best of hardware. SM4 is a big deal but for the long run they should be focusing on actually speeding up the d3d-ogl translations.

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    • #3
      As far as I know, DX10 games are entirely based on SM4 shaders. And those run directly on the GPU. That means there is no D3D > OGL translation, and no performance-loss.

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      • #4
        Wow, what an interesting news!!

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Remco View Post
          As far as I know, DX10 games are entirely based on SM4 shaders. And those run directly on the GPU. That means there is no D3D > OGL translation, and no performance-loss.
          they sure as hell use sm4 but entirely based on sm4?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by L33F3R View Post
            they sure as hell use sm4 but entirely based on sm4?
            Well, what else should they be doing? Everything is done with shaders these days.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Remco View Post
              As far as I know, DX10 games are entirely based on SM4 shaders. And those run directly on the GPU. That means there is no D3D > OGL translation, and no performance-loss.
              AFAIK they need to convert Direct3D shaders to OpenGL shaders which kind of gives the same bottleneck.
              Anyways, things will be playable (after we approach feature completeness) with at the very least 50% of original performance since there isn't anything that fancy about DX10 apart from the switch to a programmable-only-environment.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Remco View Post
                Well, what else should they be doing? Everything is done with shaders these days.
                No. You need to upload and manage textures, you actually want *geometry* to be rendered, you need to track the state of your graphics pipeline...

                There is *much* to do before even thinking of rendering stuff with shaders.

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                • #9
                  I agree it does not make sense from a user perspective. Actually, the whole wine does not make sense, there are glitches all over the place, that seemingly never get fixed.

                  For DirectX, they should probably redo DX 9 (or 10) support on top of Gallium, rather than dealing with an intermediate layer on top of OpenGL, but looking at their resistance for integrating submitted code like the Pulseaudio support, this will probably never happen

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by remm View Post
                    I agree it does not make sense from a user perspective. Actually, the whole wine does not make sense, there are glitches all over the place, that seemingly never get fixed.

                    For DirectX, they should probably redo DX 9 (or 10) support on top of Gallium, rather than dealing with an intermediate layer on top of OpenGL, but looking at their resistance for integrating submitted code like the Pulseaudio support, this will probably never happen
                    1) Most things actually work pretty fine for me, you're playing the wrong games On a more serious side though, I can play many games, for which I'd otherwise need to boot up Windows, with acceptable to good FPS within Wine, so it DOES make sense (and that is not even about at least 90% of the "normal" windows apps I can run with it).
                    2) There are several reasons NOT to use Gallium3D for that, see http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showp...61&postcount=7 and the corresponding thread
                    3) We did not want to include that support as it would've meant yet one MORE sound backend to maintain. It took several years for the ALSA backend to catch up the OSS one, and all the other backends were simply crap (not working, nowhere near feature completeness, ugly code, etc...)

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                    • #11
                      NeoBrain, could you say why the OSS backend of Wine always turns my "headphones" mixer to muted? I have to turn it back on to hear anything after starting things

                      OTOH it could be Red Alert as well, as that's the only thing I use Wine for.

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                      • #12
                        1) Most things actually work pretty fine for me, you're playing the wrong games
                        The classic programmers' excuse: that's not a bug, you're just doing it wrong! Alternate version: "Doctor, it hurts when I lift my arm up! -- So don't lift your arm up!"

                        Seriously though, I see this used as an excuse far too frequently. We programmers as a group need to own up to our mistakes and just fix things, even if they don't affect us directly.

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                        • #13
                          It was a joke. He just made the statement that not everything sucks about Wine, that it can actually do some real useful work for you. Of course it's not complete, not even nearly. But what else would you expect?

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by unix_epoch View Post
                            Seriously though, I see this used as an excuse far too frequently. We programmers as a group need to own up to our mistakes and just fix things, even if they don't affect us directly.
                            Powerful words. I see this alot particularly in the mod scene but we here in the art camp cant say anything about it because programmers are few and far between (and few for good reasons).

                            No one goes our of their way to be the pretty girl with gonorrhea; sadly this seems to be the wine roadmap.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by NeoBrain View Post
                              1) Most things actually work pretty fine for me, you're playing the wrong games On a more serious side though, I can play many games, for which I'd otherwise need to boot up Windows, with acceptable to good FPS within Wine, so it DOES make sense (and that is not even about at least 90% of the "normal" windows apps I can run with it).
                              2) There are several reasons NOT to use Gallium3D for that, see http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showp...61&postcount=7 and the corresponding thread
                              3) We did not want to include that support as it would've meant yet one MORE sound backend to maintain. It took several years for the ALSA backend to catch up the OSS one, and all the other backends were simply crap (not working, nowhere near feature completeness, ugly code, etc...)
                              1) Things are very glitchy, even for desktop applications ... If you don't believe it, run Wine from the console, and look at the amount of stubbed stuff which gets run.
                              2) Glad you care more about people willing to run proprietary code to get their games working than real OSS solutions. For games, I chose Windows (it's only twice as fast, without the glitches).
                              3) Neato Well, I don't care, downstream makes that choice for you, and includes WinePulse (defaulting to pulse). And unlike your oh-so-great ALSA backend, it actually works. It will likely be the same for the 3D backend. Generally about Wine, how about dropping the stuff that is obviously not working from the configurable options that have a GUI ? For example, right now, among your official sound plugins, only ALSA should actually be mentioned.
                              Last edited by remm; 05-10-2009, 11:40 AM.

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