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WINE 1.1.21 Starts On Shader Model 4 Support

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  • #16
    Originally posted by remm View Post
    1) Things are very glitchy, even for desktop applications ... If you don't believe it, run Wine from the console, and look at the amount of stubbed stuff which gets run.
    2) Glad you care more about people willing to run proprietary code to get their games working than real OSS solutions. For games, I chose Windows (it's only twice as fast, without the glitches).
    3) Neato Well, I don't care, downstream makes that choice for you, and includes WinePulse (defaulting to pulse). And unlike your oh-so-great ALSA backend, it actually works. It will likely be the same for the 3D backend. Generally about Wine, how about dropping the stuff that is obviously not working from the configurable options that have a GUI ? For example, right now, among your official sound plugins, only ALSA should actually be mentioned.
    Well, I just said that my experience with Wine is a very good one. I didn't see any major glitches, yet, and neither do I often encounter minor ones. Perhaps you just run much more Win apps than me, no idea

    I never really cared that much about my system being OSS or not, I just want it to run, to run well and to behave like I want. One could argue that fglrx doesn't really do that, but actually I almost never have any problems with it (apart from starting a second X server or the non-functional compiz blur plugin).
    About getting Wine to run on full OSS systems... It's just not practical. How long has the OpenGL 2.0 specification been out? We still don't have GSLG support in OSS drivers, how are the Wine D3D guys supposed to implement Direct3D 10 support that way? It's not that we didn't care about OSS drivers by the way, but for most features the OSS still need to catch up first.

    And to the sound backend topic... I can also just tell from my personal experience that I never had any problems with sound in Wine (it was just the intel ALSA driver which doesn't support software mixing correctly, but that's another topic).

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    • #17
      Originally posted by NeoBrain View Post
      About getting Wine to run on full OSS systems... It's just not practical. How long has the OpenGL 2.0 specification been out? We still don't have GSLG support in OSS drivers, how are the Wine D3D guys supposed to implement Direct3D 10 support that way? It's not that we didn't care about OSS drivers by the way, but for most features the OSS still need to catch up first.
      FYI osiris has started working on GLSL in the open source drivers...

      04:15 #radeon: < osiris__> yay, simple GLSL fragment programs are working without a problem
      http://people.freedesktop.org/~cbril...ate=2009-05-10

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      • #18
        Originally posted by remm View Post
        3) Neato Well, I don't care, downstream makes that choice for you, and includes WinePulse (defaulting to pulse). And unlike your oh-so-great ALSA backend, it actually works. It will likely be the same for the 3D backend. Generally about Wine, how about dropping the stuff that is obviously not working from the configurable options that have a GUI ? For example, right now, among your official sound plugins, only ALSA should actually be mentioned.
        #1 audio fix in linux right now is to remove PulseAudio. Sorry but it is waaaay to green to support in wine. It's hard enough to develop and troubleshoot a project such as wine without having to debug yet another green and rapidly changing audio layer (which adds also another layer of latency) still heavily under development. In fact some distro's that adopted Pulse as a standard install are now reconsidering removing it as a default item because of the numerous issues it causes.

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        • #19
          I find it highly ironic you qualify that as "green". How would you qualify Wine then ?

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          • #20
            Originally posted by remm View Post
            I find it highly ironic you qualify that as "green". How would you qualify Wine then ?
            Wine was in alpha for how long? A decade?

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            • #21
              And it should have stayed there for about 10 more years If you insist, I can provide screenshots and logs to demonstrate the quality and completeness of this great software (But Pulse is not good enough for you Nice one, lol )

              Put that in parallel with its resistance to progress and you have a project which should disband rather than mislead people and encourag software companies to not port stuff to Linux.

              I'll let the fanboys have fun with that ...

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              • #22
                Originally posted by remm View Post
                Put that in parallel with its resistance to progress and you have a project which should disband rather than mislead people and encourag software companies to not port stuff to Linux.

                I'll let the fanboys have fun with that ...
                lol you are a bad bad person

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by remm View Post
                  And it should have stayed there for about 10 more years If you insist, I can provide screenshots and logs to demonstrate the quality and completeness of this great software (But Pulse is not good enough for you Nice one, lol )
                  lol, have you even bothered to do a bug search on pulse or look at it's changlogs, and it's a project far less complex then what pulse is trying to accomplish.

                  As far as wine discouraging porting that's a bunch of BS. It's another excuse that fanboi's like to try to make stick. Reality is though, while it maybe worthwhile for someone not on the payroll to submit to wine it's not a big enough market for big game publishers to port too and linux does not have a nice wrapped up all inclusive development API for those developers. When attempts are made to bring some common ground to make a developers life easier, such as the mono project, fanboi's scream bloody murder and shit on all attempts.

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                  • #24
                    WINE kills open source kittens. It's true.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by deanjo View Post
                      When attempts are made to bring some common ground to make a developers life easier, such as the mono project, fanboi's scream bloody murder and shit on all attempts.
                      I actually agree with you on mono.

                      Its clear to see wine has room for improvement. As for the debate of not porting software i would suggest we look to apple as intel macs can use wine. If the software ports have dropped on the osx platform sinse wine then we know something is up because the mac market share has gone up.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by L33F3R View Post
                        I actually agree with you on mono.

                        Its clear to see wine has room for improvement. As for the debate of not porting software i would suggest we look to apple as intel macs can use wine. If the software ports have dropped on the osx platform sinse wine then we know something is up because the mac market share has gone up.
                        Even then you can't conclusively say that. While it may be profitable to pull a quick and dirty hack, it may not be profitable enough enough yet with macs still accounting for little of the market share to do a full blown port. Porting for consoles you can be rest assured you are porting to a community that is gaming oriented. Developing for windows is a pure numbers game. There are even gaming developers that do not port to windows because the time and effort is not worth it financially. Take a look at Lucas Arts for example, even though there was much outcry about no PC version Lucas Arts still said it just wasn't worth it.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by NeoBrain View Post
                          [...]
                          About getting Wine to run on full OSS systems... It's just not practical. How long has the OpenGL 2.0 specification been out? We still don't have GSLG support in OSS drivers, how are the Wine D3D guys supposed to implement Direct3D 10 support that way? It's not that we didn't care about OSS drivers by the way, but for most features the OSS still need to catch up first.
                          [...]
                          Mesa has supported GLSL for a quite a while now, but it varies with the driver of course, but it's at least supported in i965.

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                          • #28
                            ... and there's hope for radeon :

                            16:36 #radeon: < osiris__> yatta! first GLSL program with flow control is working

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                            • #29
                              Lets test Zero Ballistics or gl2benchmark on it. I never saw gl2benchmark running on oss drivers. Well I do not own a G965, but even a G35/Q35 which seems relatively similar does not support it.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by deanjo View Post
                                Even then you can't conclusively say that. While it may be profitable to pull a quick and dirty hack, it may not be profitable enough enough yet with macs still accounting for little of the market share to do a full blown port. Porting for consoles you can be rest assured you are porting to a community that is gaming oriented. Developing for windows is a pure numbers game. There are even gaming developers that do not port to windows because the time and effort is not worth it financially. Take a look at Lucas Arts for example, even though there was much outcry about no PC version Lucas Arts still said it just wasn't worth it.
                                well then ders only 1 thing to do.....

                                make a team of 200 developers making the greatest game ever strictly for the linux/MAC platforms. heck bsd can come too .

                                It would be...

                                METAL TUX
                                Glitch in the ATI driver



                                this is why they dont let me do textures

                                for real tho, what if wine only focused on generic desktop apps over attempting to keep up with games? i know wine isnt exactly an emulator but if we look at say... PS2 emulation. We cant hardly play PS2 games without top end machines and even that is a push. I understand the situation is different but the principal is the same. Its like trying to turn a torx screw with a flat head screwdriver - eventually you might get it but your screw is going to blow and its going to take a long time.

                                Wine looks pleasing on paper but its a curse overall, much like my ex girlfriend.

                                *gets ready for terror *

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