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WINE 1.1.21 Starts On Shader Model 4 Support

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  • #11
    NeoBrain, could you say why the OSS backend of Wine always turns my "headphones" mixer to muted? I have to turn it back on to hear anything after starting things

    OTOH it could be Red Alert as well, as that's the only thing I use Wine for.

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    • #12
      1) Most things actually work pretty fine for me, you're playing the wrong games
      The classic programmers' excuse: that's not a bug, you're just doing it wrong! Alternate version: "Doctor, it hurts when I lift my arm up! -- So don't lift your arm up!"

      Seriously though, I see this used as an excuse far too frequently. We programmers as a group need to own up to our mistakes and just fix things, even if they don't affect us directly.

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      • #13
        It was a joke. He just made the statement that not everything sucks about Wine, that it can actually do some real useful work for you. Of course it's not complete, not even nearly. But what else would you expect?

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        • #14
          Originally posted by unix_epoch View Post
          Seriously though, I see this used as an excuse far too frequently. We programmers as a group need to own up to our mistakes and just fix things, even if they don't affect us directly.
          Powerful words. I see this alot particularly in the mod scene but we here in the art camp cant say anything about it because programmers are few and far between (and few for good reasons).

          No one goes our of their way to be the pretty girl with gonorrhea; sadly this seems to be the wine roadmap.

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          • #15
            Originally posted by NeoBrain View Post
            1) Most things actually work pretty fine for me, you're playing the wrong games On a more serious side though, I can play many games, for which I'd otherwise need to boot up Windows, with acceptable to good FPS within Wine, so it DOES make sense (and that is not even about at least 90% of the "normal" windows apps I can run with it).
            2) There are several reasons NOT to use Gallium3D for that, see http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showp...61&postcount=7 and the corresponding thread
            3) We did not want to include that support as it would've meant yet one MORE sound backend to maintain. It took several years for the ALSA backend to catch up the OSS one, and all the other backends were simply crap (not working, nowhere near feature completeness, ugly code, etc...)
            1) Things are very glitchy, even for desktop applications ... If you don't believe it, run Wine from the console, and look at the amount of stubbed stuff which gets run.
            2) Glad you care more about people willing to run proprietary code to get their games working than real OSS solutions. For games, I chose Windows (it's only twice as fast, without the glitches).
            3) Neato Well, I don't care, downstream makes that choice for you, and includes WinePulse (defaulting to pulse). And unlike your oh-so-great ALSA backend, it actually works. It will likely be the same for the 3D backend. Generally about Wine, how about dropping the stuff that is obviously not working from the configurable options that have a GUI ? For example, right now, among your official sound plugins, only ALSA should actually be mentioned.
            Last edited by remm; 05-10-2009, 11:40 AM.

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            • #16
              Originally posted by remm View Post
              1) Things are very glitchy, even for desktop applications ... If you don't believe it, run Wine from the console, and look at the amount of stubbed stuff which gets run.
              2) Glad you care more about people willing to run proprietary code to get their games working than real OSS solutions. For games, I chose Windows (it's only twice as fast, without the glitches).
              3) Neato Well, I don't care, downstream makes that choice for you, and includes WinePulse (defaulting to pulse). And unlike your oh-so-great ALSA backend, it actually works. It will likely be the same for the 3D backend. Generally about Wine, how about dropping the stuff that is obviously not working from the configurable options that have a GUI ? For example, right now, among your official sound plugins, only ALSA should actually be mentioned.
              Well, I just said that my experience with Wine is a very good one. I didn't see any major glitches, yet, and neither do I often encounter minor ones. Perhaps you just run much more Win apps than me, no idea

              I never really cared that much about my system being OSS or not, I just want it to run, to run well and to behave like I want. One could argue that fglrx doesn't really do that, but actually I almost never have any problems with it (apart from starting a second X server or the non-functional compiz blur plugin).
              About getting Wine to run on full OSS systems... It's just not practical. How long has the OpenGL 2.0 specification been out? We still don't have GSLG support in OSS drivers, how are the Wine D3D guys supposed to implement Direct3D 10 support that way? It's not that we didn't care about OSS drivers by the way, but for most features the OSS still need to catch up first.

              And to the sound backend topic... I can also just tell from my personal experience that I never had any problems with sound in Wine (it was just the intel ALSA driver which doesn't support software mixing correctly, but that's another topic).

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              • #17
                Originally posted by NeoBrain View Post
                About getting Wine to run on full OSS systems... It's just not practical. How long has the OpenGL 2.0 specification been out? We still don't have GSLG support in OSS drivers, how are the Wine D3D guys supposed to implement Direct3D 10 support that way? It's not that we didn't care about OSS drivers by the way, but for most features the OSS still need to catch up first.
                FYI osiris has started working on GLSL in the open source drivers...

                04:15 #radeon: < osiris__> yay, simple GLSL fragment programs are working without a problem
                http://people.freedesktop.org/~cbril...ate=2009-05-10

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                • #18
                  Originally posted by remm View Post
                  3) Neato Well, I don't care, downstream makes that choice for you, and includes WinePulse (defaulting to pulse). And unlike your oh-so-great ALSA backend, it actually works. It will likely be the same for the 3D backend. Generally about Wine, how about dropping the stuff that is obviously not working from the configurable options that have a GUI ? For example, right now, among your official sound plugins, only ALSA should actually be mentioned.
                  #1 audio fix in linux right now is to remove PulseAudio. Sorry but it is waaaay to green to support in wine. It's hard enough to develop and troubleshoot a project such as wine without having to debug yet another green and rapidly changing audio layer (which adds also another layer of latency) still heavily under development. In fact some distro's that adopted Pulse as a standard install are now reconsidering removing it as a default item because of the numerous issues it causes.

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                  • #19
                    I find it highly ironic you qualify that as "green". How would you qualify Wine then ?

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                    • #20
                      Originally posted by remm View Post
                      I find it highly ironic you qualify that as "green". How would you qualify Wine then ?
                      Wine was in alpha for how long? A decade?

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