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Ubuntu 8.10 "Intrepid Ibex" Released

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Vadi View Post
    Upgraded, everything works great and better. I'm sticking to Linux for another 6 months
    wait a minute.... If I'm reading that right, you're saying that if Canonical botched a release you'd give up on Linux? That's strange. I thought I heard some other people were distributing Linux as well...

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    • #32
      That, and 8.04 is fully supported until 2011

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      • #33
        Only supported by Canonical... not by people or companies really. I didn't see too many .debs for Dapper when it was nearing EOL.

        Yeah, other people distribute Linux too. It fails to work, or has no support, or isn't known by anyone so nobody makes packages for it. Eh...

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Vadi View Post
          Only supported by Canonical... not by people or companies really. I didn't see too many .debs for Dapper when it was nearing EOL.

          Yeah, other people distribute Linux too. It fails to work, or has no support, or isn't known by anyone so nobody makes packages for it. Eh...
          wait, what? Canonical is a company. A company of people. Ignoring that, if Canonical does such a crappy job, why bother with Ubuntu to begin with?

          Ignoring that, yes, Ubuntu seems to be the 800 lb. gorrila of personal use desktop linux. I'll cede that point. But come on, no one knows about openSUSE, Fedora, or Mandriva? Novell, Red Hat, and Mandriva don't support their software? No one uses the openSUSE Build Service? Have you seen how many packages are available for just-plain-old Debian?

          I understand if Ubuntu suits your preferences better than anything else. I can see how you'd be frustrated if one of their releases was a regression. But honestly, what changed to make the software selection you were using last week completely obsolete and unusable? and really, have you even TRIED any other distro? just because one is missing apt-get doesn't immediately make it complete trash.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by jeffro-tull View Post
            I understand if Ubuntu suits your preferences better than anything else. I can see how you'd be frustrated if one of their releases was a regression. But honestly, what changed to make the software selection you were using last week completely obsolete and unusable? and really, have you even TRIED any other distro? just because one is missing apt-get doesn't immediately make it complete trash.
            I've been using linux for about 3 years. My first linux distribution ever was fedore core 4, and as a new linux user, I was very disappointed with it - no sound, no 3D, no mp3/avi codecs. A month later, I tried suse 10.0, and I used it through versions 10.1, 10.2 and 10.3, but I got a bit frustrated because of its slow package manager. Then, I've heard about ubuntu - it was fast, it was hardware compatible, it had divX/mp3 codecs, it was great. I only disliked the bad ATI support in gutsy, but that seemed to got fixed in hardy (although video playback was way too slow for me. Two days ago, I upgraded to intrepid and got very disappointed. Somehow I've just expected more from intrepid. I didn't expect booting into console after upgrade and after making X work loosing my compiz settings. Now I'm planning to move to fedora 10, as soon as it's going to be released. But I still have a sort of "fear" from it - I don't know whether it will have all the packages I need in its repository (amarok, openoffice, eclipse, blender, octave, ...), and if it would, which version will it have? I don't know if it will have all the restricted codecs (mp3, divx, ...) in its repository, or I would have to do a "black magic" like in suse (importing some strange third party repositories to be able to listen my favourite mp3s or watch a movie). I also don't know what configuration tools I'd have and how would I use them.
            Now I feel alike new linux user that has just moved from windows.
            I always like to learn new things, but I don't have a lot of time lately. Therefore, I can't afford reinstalling every two weeks a new linux distribution just to try it out. This is actually the no. 1 reason I've moved from windows - just to avoid formatting the drive every 3-4 months (as I did in windows).

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            • #36
              Originally posted by jeffro-tull View Post
              just because one is missing apt-get doesn't immediately make it complete trash.
              I'm aware there are thousands of distributions. But I didn't switch to Linux to be installing a distro every two weeks.

              I'm not the type who'll tinker about with his computer and play with it. I use the computer for work and entertainment. Not for poking around in it's insides. So the "just works" slogan, as you must understand, is very appealing. I don't care how stuff works, but it just needs to work. Ubuntu so far provides that best.

              (ignoring the crappy value/price macs, of course. But if you read as to why linux users switch to macs, it's exactly because it "just works")

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              • #37
                Originally posted by DoDoENT View Post
                I've been using linux for about 3 years. My first linux distribution ever was fedore core 4, and as a new linux user, I was very disappointed with it - no sound, no 3D, no mp3/avi codecs. A month later, I tried suse 10.0, and I used it through versions 10.1, 10.2 and 10.3, but I got a bit frustrated because of its slow package manager. Then, I've heard about ubuntu - it was fast, it was hardware compatible, it had divX/mp3 codecs, it was great. I only disliked the bad ATI support in gutsy, but that seemed to got fixed in hardy (although video playback was way too slow for me. Two days ago, I upgraded to intrepid and got very disappointed. Somehow I've just expected more from intrepid. I didn't expect booting into console after upgrade and after making X work loosing my compiz settings. Now I'm planning to move to fedora 10, as soon as it's going to be released. But I still have a sort of "fear" from it - I don't know whether it will have all the packages I need in its repository (amarok, openoffice, eclipse, blender, octave, ...), and if it would, which version will it have? I don't know if it will have all the restricted codecs (mp3, divx, ...) in its repository, or I would have to do a "black magic" like in suse (importing some strange third party repositories to be able to listen my favourite mp3s or watch a movie). I also don't know what configuration tools I'd have and how would I use them.
                Now I feel alike new linux user that has just moved from windows.
                I always like to learn new things, but I don't have a lot of time lately. Therefore, I can't afford reinstalling every two weeks a new linux distribution just to try it out. This is actually the no. 1 reason I've moved from windows - just to avoid formatting the drive every 3-4 months (as I did in windows).
                I know I am probably a prick about this but seriously now, you change distro's because you have to do some minimal work? You think you won't see these kind of things in Windows/Mac OS/different distro's? If the answer is "Yes, I think there are OS that are 100% perfect right out of the box." then take a look at the bottom of my post.

                Solutions for your problems:
                Just backup your home folder on one or more DVD's if you haven't done it already (please people, always backup your stuff for everyone's sake). Then do a fresh install of 8.10 and restore your home folder. That would take approximately 45 minutes and no effort at all.

                I don't know how you can get your old Compiz settings back, but I saw there's an export/import function that comes with it standard so I guess you could use that to make sure this won't happen again.

                Originally posted by Vadi View Post
                I'm aware there are thousands of distributions. But I didn't switch to Linux to be installing a distro every two weeks.

                I'm not the type who'll tinker about with his computer and play with it. I use the computer for work and entertainment. Not for poking around in it's insides. So the "just works" slogan, as you must understand, is very appealing. I don't care how stuff works, but it just needs to work. Ubuntu so far provides that best.

                (ignoring the crappy value/price macs, of course. But if you read as to why linux users switch to macs, it's exactly because it "just works")
                Yeah Mac's just work, until you have one: http://www.macfixit.com/ Like I said to the person before you: There are no perfect OS. You need to do maintenance work for your computer just like you need to do maintenance work for you car. Sorry there's no escaping it. You'll either need to do it yourself, or let someone else do it for you. Just like with your car.
                Last edited by MaestroMaus; 11-01-2008, 09:57 AM.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by MaestroMaus View Post
                  Solutions for your problems:
                  Just backup your home folder on one or more DVD's if you haven't done it already (please people, always backup your stuff for everyone's sake). Then do a fresh install of 8.10 and restore your home folder. That would take approximately 45 minutes and no effort at all.

                  Yeah Mac's just work, until you have one: http://www.macfixit.com/ Like I said to the person before you: There are no perfect OS. You need to do maintenance work for your computer just like you need to do maintenance work for you car. Sorry there's no escaping it. You'll either need to do it yourself, or let someone else do it for you. Just like with your car.
                  I agree with that. There really is no perfect OS. And I know I have to do a maintenance work for your computer, but I want to minimize that work. Today, after two days of fixing stuff, I finally got my ubuntu working as it did before upgrade. (Except for fglrx - but I hope catalyst 8.11 will support xserver 1.5 - it's not that I don't like open source radeon driver, it's that google earth has 1 frame per 2 seconds using it (regardless of using compiz)). Also, firefox is very slow on my intrepid - fortunately I use opera and I don't miss firefox much.
                  Fresh install of 8.10 was an option, but I don't feel like installing a new OS every 6 months. That's why there are upgrades, isn't it? And one would expect that upgrade won't crush one's system. It isn't a problem for me, or for most of you around here - we all live with linux for a while - but how does that impact a new linux user, who doesn't know what to do when their linux boot into a console?? Such a user would return to windows for life!

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by DoDoENT View Post
                    it's not that I don't like open source radeon driver, it's that google earth has 1 frame per 2 seconds using it (regardless of using compiz)).
                    Hmm.. very strange!!! I've just tried UT and CS via wine, and they worked normally, even with compiz on. They didn't work when I checked out the radeon driver from git on August 02

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by DoDoENT View Post
                      I agree with that. There really is no perfect OS. And I know I have to do a maintenance work for your computer, but I want to minimize that work. Today, after two days of fixing stuff, I finally got my ubuntu working as it did before upgrade. (Except for fglrx - but I hope catalyst 8.11 will support xserver 1.5 - it's not that I don't like open source radeon driver, it's that google earth has 1 frame per 2 seconds using it (regardless of using compiz)). Also, firefox is very slow on my intrepid - fortunately I use opera and I don't miss firefox much.
                      Fresh install of 8.10 was an option, but I don't feel like installing a new OS every 6 months. That's why there are upgrades, isn't it? And one would expect that upgrade won't crush one's system. It isn't a problem for me, or for most of you around here - we all live with linux for a while - but how does that impact a new linux user, who doesn't know what to do when their linux boot into a console?? Such a user would return to windows for life!
                      True, the update systems leaves much to be desired. However, I do not have the skills to fix it, and it doesn't look like anyone is picking it up yet, so until it does get fixed I recommend to do a fresh install of every time you would like to upgrade to a new version. This doesn't mean you have to do it every six months. You could chose to stick with the LTS versions and safe the trouble. Your right that it is a hassle, but hey, did you ever look at the amount of time needed to get any Windows version working properly? Besides, if I run into problems I much rather have them on Ubuntu then on Windows because the guys on the Ubuntu forums will at least help properly (if they can). The only problem with newbies is that they don't think something like a helpful techforum exists.

                      As far as your troubles are concerned, you could set a good example for the newbies by going to the Ubuntu forums. It is in everyone's best interest they get there because the Ubuntu staff can more easily see what things need to be fixed first (and the users get good support if possible).
                      Last edited by MaestroMaus; 11-01-2008, 10:48 AM.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by MaestroMaus View Post
                        As far as your troubles are concerned, you could set a good example for the newbies by going to the Ubuntu forums.
                        I already have account on ubuntuforums.org, but I don't have a lot time to read every single new post. But if you pm me, I'll be happy to help as much as I could.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by DoDoENT View Post
                          I already have account on ubuntuforums.org, but I don't have a lot time to read every single new post. But if you pm me, I'll be happy to help as much as I could.
                          Much appreciated!
                          *starts writing PM

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                          • #43
                            you know, I really wonder where people get off with their expectations for Linux. Everyone says they want one that Just Works, but the definition of that isn't so simple. Just from this thread, here's what I gather:

                            They want all the brand new bells and whistles, they want all their programs on there out of the box, they want every multimedia codec known to man installed by default, they want a seemless ugrade path for when the NEXT great thing comes out. Oh, and it better be rock solid stable and the user better not have to do much more than input their name and password before they go.

                            Y'know, I'd like all that, too. But I don't know where people get off expecting all that. Since they were brought up, I can see expting everything under the sun from a Mac. For how much they cost, there's no excuse otherwise.

                            But I'm willing to bet most of the desktop Linux users came from the Windows camp. Have any of you guys complaining installed Windows yourselves? Do you remember how incomplete it was out of the box? How unstable it was if you did an upgrade rather than a fresh install? Whenever I had to install Windows on one of my machines, it was usually an all-weekend affair. And that's if I didn't forget anything.

                            Should Linux be better than that? Of course. But if it's not in your particular case.... what, you're going to go back to the other option? that has the same problems with higher cost and less freedom? Good luck with that.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by jeffro-tull View Post
                              They want all the brand new bells and whistles, they want all their programs on there out of the box, they want every multimedia codec known to man installed by default, they want a seemless ugrade path for when the NEXT great thing comes out. Oh, and it better be rock solid stable and the user better not have to do much more than input their name and password before they go.
                              Indeed, we want impossible. Since I'm an amateur programmer too, I know that it is impossible to make a perfect piece of software.

                              But when you criticize the bugs with other people on some forum, it's a lot easier to get over them .
                              It's the same when your girlfriend cheats on you. It's easier to get over it when you talk about that, rather than keep everything inside you.

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