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Gentoo Linux 2008.0

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  • #76
    Originally posted by RobbieAB View Post
    And where have either of us claimed otherwise?

    All either of us have claimed is that Gentoo is not for everyone, but that does not make it elitist, and that too much automagic is bad.
    Poorly implemented automagic is bad, not the amount.

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    • #77
      There have been some comments in this thread about Gentoo documentation not being updated or complete, and I have to strongly disagree. I use Ubuntu almost entirely unless on work servers (all RHEL), and the majority of the time I use Ubuntu documentation. But when I have a problem that I can't find a solution for anywhere else I can usually find something about it on the Gentoo wiki.

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      • #78
        Originally posted by joshuapurcell View Post
        There have been some comments in this thread about Gentoo documentation not being updated or complete, and I have to strongly disagree. I use Ubuntu almost entirely unless on work servers (all RHEL), and the majority of the time I use Ubuntu documentation. But when I have a problem that I can't find a solution for anywhere else I can usually find something about it on the Gentoo wiki.
        Heh, I recall seeing an IBM posting to that effect...

        It basically ran that Gentoo was the only community distro from Debian, Fedora, and OpenSUSE to have noted certain of the speciallised requirements for one of their big machines. As RHEL and SLES were certified to run on it, this came as a slight surprise.

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        • #79
          Gentoo?

          I suspect the critique is that it is only suited for advanced users or intermediate users (but not beginners). Also, constant compiling is involved. If you are compiling, say, KDE, how long does it take? Not everyone has a fast computer. I was wondering how long it might take to compile the largest packages such as KDE - on a Quad Core (Core 2 Quad 6600) computer.

          I knew/know of someone who is a Gentoo fan and even had it installed on one of my computers (was sold). It probably wasn't the best candidate for Gentoo as it was an AMD64 4200+ cpu machine. I now use a Quad Core but I'm not very familiar with Linux especially manually configuring or using the command line extensively. I am sure Gentoo is great for advanced users but probably would be a struggle for me at this stage.

          I also can say that I know of some advanced Linux users who are, at the moment, not committed to jumping into Gentoo because of previous issues/problems or perceiving that the 'Gentoo community' has (had?) such issues as decribed in the phoronix article. I'm neutral on this and know nothing of it so I'm just mentioning.

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          • #80
            Originally posted by Panix View Post
            I suspect the critique is that it is only suited for advanced users or intermediate users (but not beginners). Also, constant compiling is involved. If you are compiling, say, KDE, how long does it take? Not everyone has a fast computer. I was wondering how long it might take to compile the largest packages such as KDE - on a Quad Core (Core 2 Quad 6600) computer.

            I knew/know of someone who is a Gentoo fan and even had it installed on one of my computers (was sold). It probably wasn't the best candidate for Gentoo as it was an AMD64 4200+ cpu machine. I now use a Quad Core but I'm not very familiar with Linux especially manually configuring or using the command line extensively. I am sure Gentoo is great for advanced users but probably would be a struggle for me at this stage.

            I also can say that I know of some advanced Linux users who are, at the moment, not committed to jumping into Gentoo because of previous issues/problems or perceiving that the 'Gentoo community' has (had?) such issues as decribed in the phoronix article. I'm neutral on this and know nothing of it so I'm just mentioning.
            Yeah, I heard the same as far as the community issues, I don't know much about them though. Gentoo doesn't require a fast machine, but the faster machine you have, the less pain it will be in compiling the system. Gentoo is recommended for advanced users, because in my opinion, is a project of its own, but it has its own benefits as well.

            I just want to state that what I said previously was not to pit Gentoo against Ubuntu or other distributions but the whole point was to show that there are advantages and disadvantages to doing things the long way. I've used Fedora, OpenSuSE, Debian, Ubuntu, Vector, Slackware, Gentoo and many others and I can say they all have their advantages over one another. Although I have to say the newest OpenSuSE (11.0) is pretty nice.

            I've had frustrations of my own with Gentoo as well as any other distribution, they all have their own problems that well, you just gotta deal with. Some have more problems than others though. As far as my personal experience, the two least painful distributions I've used is OpenSuSE and Debian. The most rewarding in the end is probably Gentoo.

            If you want to try experimenting with Gentoo with no risk you could just use something like Virtualbox or some other virtual machine software and experiment with it.
            Last edited by Malikith; 07-12-2008, 02:05 PM.

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            • #81
              gentoo is great in that aspect that is's as close to LFS (linux from scratch) as you can get without having to do boring chores of that distribution (get patches, get tarballs, checks deps, unpack, compile, strip, install etc).

              i always wanted to use from-source distro. when i heard about gentoo i tried it right away. now i'm feeling pretty uncomfortable using binary distributions.

              arch linux comes out as my favorite binary distribution so far. it's pretty simple, and with little bloat. it works like a charm where gentoo is not an option - on my second pc, which is celeron 366mhz with 256mb of 133mhz sdram :]

              one reason for using gentoo is that it updates its packages more often, even those more "obscure" for typical desktop user - i particulary care for fdm, elinks, mutt, ffmpeg, mplayer and perl related packages. most popular distros update them usually when new release of the distro is out.

              second reason is what makes gentoo stand out - i can strip unnecessary features from packages (e.g. build a system with no gnome dependencies, and with no gnome packages as the result). binary distros cannot provide that, and i particulary hate ubuntu in that regard, because it pulls tons of useless (from my point of view) stuff along with the packages i need.

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              • #82
                To those complaining about compile times: Tinderbox and the GRP.

                There are binary tarball repositories made from the tree by various people, many off whom are happy to make the binaries available. Indeed, these are quite commonly used when rescuing a system which some (normally new, but not always) user has managed to break by removing something critical.

                The big thing about gentoo is the package manager (any of the three qualify). It makes keeping stuff working nicely easy, and is one of the most robust to rapidly changing packages installed when coupled with one of the maintenance tools. (Actually, the version of the package manager in the unstable tree doesn't even need the tool.)

                For me, my use of gentoo is based on the fact that I found it ridiculously easy to break RPM, and when I started Ubuntu wasn't really on the scene, and we were still waiting for the Flying Pigs with Debian.

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                • #83
                  To those complaining about compile times: Tinderbox and the GRP.
                  and ccache saves the day for those situation where package fails halfway and you have to retry with different settings or where you reinstall tons of from-svn/-git/-cvs/-hg packages on a weekly basis.

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Malikith View Post
                    Yeah, I heard the same as far as the community issues, I don't know much about them though. Gentoo doesn't require a fast machine, but the faster machine you have, the less pain it will be in compiling the system. Gentoo is recommended for advanced users, because in my opinion, is a project of its own, but it has its own benefits as well.

                    If you want to try experimenting with Gentoo with no risk you could just use something like Virtualbox or some other virtual machine software and experiment with it.
                    I would consider it but with only one computer (now), I would be worried about the time it would be compiling. I wouldn't have access to my computer then. Hence, my question about how long KDE would take to compile (for instance)? My friend uses Gentoo and it's his main distro. If I started earlier with Linux, I probably would have already experimented with it. But, unfortunately, I'm down to one computer and still there's lots to learn about Linux in general (for me, anyway). Perhaps, later and if I could score another computer to use when Gentoo is compiling? ;-)

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                    • #85
                      Once you are installed, you can tell portage to work with a niceness setting of 19, which leaves the system responsive even while compiling.

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Panix View Post
                        I would consider it but with only one computer (now), I would be worried about the time it would be compiling. I wouldn't have access to my computer then. Hence, my question about how long KDE would take to compile (for instance)? My friend uses Gentoo and it's his main distro. If I started earlier with Linux, I probably would have already experimented with it. But, unfortunately, I'm down to one computer and still there's lots to learn about Linux in general (for me, anyway). Perhaps, later and if I could score another computer to use when Gentoo is compiling? ;-)
                        If you have a large enough hard drive, there's another way to skin that cat. Install a binary distro that doesn't take up too much space (I'd go for Debian or Arch) on another partition. I would allocate 10GB for that other distro. So that takes away 10GB from Gentoo, but large hard drives are dirt cheap now. Use that distro for everything while Gentoo is compiling in a chroot (just follow the installation instructions, pretending like your Debian/Arch/whatever partition is your Gentoo CD, and using Konsole/GNOME-Termiml/XTerm instead of being in text mode the whole time).

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by borgus View Post
                          If you have a large enough hard drive, there's another way to skin that cat. Install a binary distro that doesn't take up too much space (I'd go for Debian or Arch) on another partition. I would allocate 10GB for that other distro. So that takes away 10GB from Gentoo, but large hard drives are dirt cheap now. Use that distro for everything while Gentoo is compiling in a chroot (just follow the installation instructions, pretending like your Debian/Arch/whatever partition is your Gentoo CD, and using Konsole/GNOME-Termiml/XTerm instead of being in text mode the whole time).
                          What I always do! Even if want to migrate to a (much) newer gcc (from 4.1 to 4.3) I did it in chroot... and when I finished, in 2 hours I had my system migrated without breakage

                          I love gentoo also for this


                          but why Michael did say a word on this discussion? as I said before he could explain in an article the real essence of gentoo

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                          • #88
                            I would be worried about the time it would be compiling. I wouldn't have access to my computer then.
                            heck i compile stuff on a daily basis and i can normally work at the same time on my pc.

                            my pc is not that great - three years old amd64 3200+, 1gb ddr ram ,250gb hdd. only slowness is experienced when big (>50mb) tarballs get unpacked for compile, then i use 19 nice level.

                            previously i had 1.7ghz celeron with 256mb ram and it also didn't really get in my way.

                            after unpacking the stage i usually get elinks and mutt set up, along with mpd + ncpmc. and i can at least read mails, browse the web and listen to music, while the rest of the stuff gets built ;-)

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                            • #89
                              Well, I have gentoo running on a P3 500 which is usable with packages emerging in a terminal. This is running the minimal gnome set-up offered by gentoo.

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by RobbieAB View Post
                                Well, I have gentoo running on a P3 500 which is usable with packages emerging in a terminal. This is running the minimal gnome set-up offered by gentoo.
                                My 486DX4 @ 100Mhz with 68MB of dram@33Mhz was running gentoo smoothly.... but I used to compile stuff on my AthlonXP 2600+, and then rsync changes offline.

                                Yours is a real Study-Case

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