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The FFmpeg vs. Libav War Continues In Debian Land

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  • The FFmpeg vs. Libav War Continues In Debian Land

    Phoronix: The FFmpeg vs. Libav War Continues In Debian Land

    An FFmpeg package is closer to reaching Debian after years of being rejected in favor of its forked libav alternative, but not all are happy with FFmpeg's reappearance...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTc1MTQ

  • #2
    Considering FFmpeg has been taking a proverbial dump in Ftp Incoming, along with Openjpeg 2.0, and Libpng shitting the bed at 1.2.x [due to lagging issues of upgrading packages now going on 18 months] it's not surprising that those I've mentioned and much more continue to languish, while asinine pet projects get pushed right through.

    JPEG, PNG and AV should be a top priority, along with PERL 6 still shitting the bed in experimental while a host of packages are broken on it. All distros need these base packages. Hell all operating systems need them.

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    • #3
      This is why random open source projects that are community ran will always fail. Now we have two projects with slight differences and people are expected to support both of them. Such a disgrace. This is a perfect example of why the Linux desktop isn't taken seriously, people. Projects such as GNOME are company-ran far more than community (red hat) so they are bound to be more organized, but some people still want to fork it and divide the community even more. You can't have perfect interoperability with split projects like this, and nobody wants to use broken software (which breaks when shit like this happens). I hope that one day people will realize this and companies like red hat will expand even more (obviously open source, but also company-driven). If it doesn't stop, the Linux desktop will never be anything more than a hobbyist's desktop. If I open my Linux desktop and there are random problems that exist, while fixable, not everyone knows how to fix them (in fact, very few compared to the amount of people who use computers and that's how it will always be) nor cares enough to fix them.

      This application randomly crashes? Oh, I have to use this patched version of this random dependency? Fuck that, and I can guarantee most users feel the same way. Forking projects unless *absolutely necessary* as was the case in Xorg vs XFree86 should not be as common in mainstream distributions.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by jimbohale View Post
        This is why random open source projects that are community ran will always fail.
        There is no fail. Everybody wants ffmpeg. It's just that the debian multimedia team is notoriously on the wrong side of history.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by not.sure View Post
          There is no fail. Everybody wants ffmpeg. It's just that the debian multimedia team is notoriously on the wrong side of history.
          This.
          Debian is strangely popular distro despite it acting full retard. Its like a poison to linux community.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by jimbohale View Post
            This is why random open source projects that are community ran will always fail.
            Err...like linux kernel? The biggest collaborative project in the history of computing?. Failed? It all started as " open source projects that is community ran".

            And on the other side, Debian is a distro not driven by any corporation, and we like it like this. In the end, all choices are made thinking in stability and usability. We're not forced to use any software just because our wisdom CEO farted and had the "next big thing idea"

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            • #7
              Originally posted by magika View Post
              This.
              Debian is strangely popular distro despite it acting full retard. Its like a poison to linux community.
              Debian is popular because:

              * It's very stable.
              * It's only interest is to provide a free and full OS to everyone.
              * You can use it easily in servers, desktops and embedded. The same version. Debian oficially supports 12 archs.
              * It's easy to customize and provide customized meta-distros to your customers.


              Despite this, yes, maybe debian multimedia mantainers are wrong, maybe not. Anyway, for _years_, Christian Marillat has been packaging ffmpeg for all versions of Debian.

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              • #8
                This whole situation sucks big time.

                Like the one with LibreOffice vs OpenOffice, like KDE vs TDE, etc.

                I mean we don't have that many dedicated open source developers, we have many software titles to be taken of, yet these little resources that we have are spread and wasted.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by neuralgya View Post
                  Err...like linux kernel? The biggest collaborative project in the history of computing?. Failed? It all started as " open source projects that is community ran".

                  And on the other side, Debian is a distro not driven by any corporation, and we like it like this. In the end, all choices are made thinking in stability and usability. We're not forced to use any software just because our wisdom CEO farted and had the "next big thing idea"
                  The Linux kernel is ran by Linus who's job it is is to make things not suck. Literal job, i.e. his livelihood depends on it.

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                  • #10
                    What do the other major distros use out of interest, FFmpeg or libav?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by magika View Post
                      This.
                      Debian is strangely popular distro despite it acting full retard. Its like a poison to linux community.
                      Debian is damn reliable, if you had some other distro (starting with U) that broke standard utilities like wget, killing quite a few of your scripts for months, beeing unable to connect to the net unless you use the default DHCP settings then you might understand the reasoning behind it.
                      Yes everything is fixable, but it often defeats the purpose of using a distro instead of building from scratch (creating a fixed LiveCD is even more daunting).

                      To me, hte sheer size of ffmpeg is its problem - just dont use it unless its for media players. "Standard" stuff like JPEG and PNG should never be handled by it, and a plain OS shouldnt depend on ffmpeg for that reason.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by kaprikawn View Post
                        What do the other major distros use out of interest, FFmpeg or libav?
                        debian and derivatives use libav and the others use ffmpeg.

                        My opinion is to purge libav and use ffmpeg.

                        Someone said that libav is only in debian because the maintainer is involved in libav.

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                        • #13
                          Oh boy, maybe I should start looking into a new Debian-based Phoenix Wright case before it's too late

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by jimbohale View Post
                            This is why random open source projects that are community ran will always fail. Now we have two projects with slight differences and people are expected to support both of them. Such a disgrace. This is a perfect example of why the Linux desktop isn't taken seriously, people. ...
                            There is more than open software. Companies may only focus on products, turn-overs and profits, but open source is more than this. It is about people working with people just as much as it is about software. When there is a communication problem between people then they should be able to work it out in any way they see fit and not be forced by some higher management to bend over and only for the sake of peace and harmony. That peace and harmony will only be superficial, thereby not be of any use, and it is not like anyone is hurting each other when differences are being settled openly.
                            Of course, one could try the "liberal corporate approach" of solving conflicts by adding a gym and a juice bar to the projects, go on a field trip for a team building experience, or just screw the project leader's wife. I hope you catch my drift ...

                            Personally do I appreciate the fork and Debian's support of libav over ffmpeg. I have followed some of the conflict and things did change on the side of ffmpeg as a result, which I also take as a concession. It would be nice if ffmpeg's leadership would now also resign and take a back seat to allow the projects to merge and to find a new leadership who everyone can trust in.

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                            • #15
                              So it looks like ffmpeg is better from a technical POV, possibly fixing bugs in various Debian multimedia applications and enabling some other apps (like mplayer) to build. libav causes bugs in Debian applications and causes builds to fail, so there's no mplayer in Debian unstable.

                              I've read a few reports by users who fixed bugs simply by installing ffmpeg from a third-party repository. ffmpeg is simply moving and fixing bugs faster than libav.

                              The only reason why libav exists and is used in Debian is some fight between ffmpeg developers that resulted in a fork, and unfortunately, the Debian ffmpeg maintainer was on the libav side of the fight. And now he's unwilling to package ffmpeg, because the ffmpeg devs are his enemy. And it looks like he's also trying to prevent ffmpeg from re-entering Debian when maintained by someone else who is on neither side of the ffmpeg/libav conflict. It's a pity that Debian and Ubuntu users are now stuck with sub-par multimedia libraries.

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