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The Latest Distro Trying For Commercial Success Uses Arch & Wayland

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  • #31
    Originally posted by chrisb View Post
    OP was right. People want Macs, not OS X. If Apple shipped a themed version of Windows, instead of OSX, people would still buy Macbooks.
    It seems people don't even want Macs. Apple is now a fourth-place laptop shipper and their Mac business is declining.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Del_ View Post
      There is truth to that I believe. I remember arguing hard on a forum ten years ago that we should make it dead easy to install nivida driver on linux. Some disagreed strongly with me. Then Ubuntu came around delivering on it, making it dead easy to install a number of proprietary drivers. Ten years later my view of the right balance has shifted significantly in the direction of "free-is-important". There are several reasons for my change of opinion, which can shortly be summarized- as follows:
      -easy installation of proprietary drivers (or apps) did nothing for the linux desktop (actually it only exposed us to risk by trusting the faith of the linux desktop into the hands of Canonical)
      -the real challenges of the linux desktop have little or nothing to do with how easy (or difficult) we make it for proprietary software. Debian simply leaves it to every vendor to package and distribute their stuff if it is proprietary, I believe that is sufficient.
      -Ten years later, what still gives me hope for the linux desktop is all those who valued the freedom, and what that brought (open graphics drivers that work, open wireless drivers almost across the board pioneered by Luis Rodriguez, pulseaudio clearing up the sound mess, systemd finally cleaning up the remaining plumming, fantastic suite of free productivity applications maturing, etc). But yes, I do acknowledge that Steam is an important part of making the linux desktop viable.
      Ubuntu was released in 2004. Do you remember what open source driver support for video drivers was like a decade ago? It is easy to say now that open source drivers are sufficient, when we have Intel and radeon and nouveau, but the choice a decade ago was to either accept propriety drivers or to not use Linux (yes, I know there were some open source drivers, but not for most user's hardware). And few would argue that Linux+propriety video was a worse compromise than telling people they should forget about Linux and stick with Windows.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by johnc View Post
        It seems people don't even want Macs. Apple is now a fourth-place laptop shipper and their Mac business is declining.
        Rise of the tablet combined with lessened need for annual hardware upgrades. Business for every desktop and laptop manufacturer is declining. Also "want" is not the same as "willing to pay for". There are many other hardware manufacturers who would love to be in fourth place.

        Having said that, Apple's decline might be inevitable. Their business model relies on being one step ahead of the pack to justify the price premium. When the others catch up and you can get similar looking and spec laptops for a significant discount from other retailers then many people will stop paying the premium.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by chrisb View Post
          OP was right. People want Macs, not OS X. If Apple shipped a themed version of Windows, instead of OSX, people would still buy Macbooks.
          dream on

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          • #35
            OSu will also utilize the startlight, a fusion of Window's start button and Apple's spotlight. This creates a familiar and easy experience for users.
            "StartLight" or "startlight?" It's "Start," not "start." Isn't "Start" a registered trademark of Microsoft? I saw "Start Here" but did not see "Start." "Windows" isn't marked as a registered trademark in OSu's website. And "Spotlight," not "spotlight," is a registered trademark of Apple, so no registered symbol there.

            I'm sorry, but I'm smelling trademark infringement in OSu's website, what with bugs in the menu with white text in white background when hovered over the text. Seems like someone does not know cascading stylesheet very well.

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            • #36
              LOL... A OS for the masses based on Arch... I want some of what the people who dreamed up this are smoking. Maybe it could work if the world was full of Linux tech gurus, but we all know that's far from reality.

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              • #37
                Canonical meanwhile has invested millions and employing hundreds of developers and still hasn't completely cracked the Linux desktop.
                As someone who tried to use Unity: They actually did completely crack the linux desktop. Unity is broken beyond repair.

                scnr

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by chrisb View Post
                  Ubuntu was released in 2004. Do you remember what open source driver support for video drivers was like a decade ago?
                  Yes. Do you remember what the proprietary video driver support was like?

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by GraysonPeddie View Post
                    Isn't "Start" a registered trademark of Microsoft?
                    An imaginary trademark. ie. a trademark that is "valid" only as long as it's challenged at court.

                    There was a time when someone was infringing on the "windows" trademark, and microsoft settled it out of court because they were afraid the court would not uphold the trademark on a word that is so generic. The same thing would almost definitely happen with "start" as well.

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                    • #40
                      This is the response what I got when I emailed them:

                      I am aware, though the next Version of MATE will have Wayland support
                      as well as a GTK3 port. That shouldn't be to long coming and if it is
                      we'll help out a bit, we are bringing in Collabora to help us out and
                      advise us in aspects of wayland and Xwayland. I'm not to worried but
                      MATE is faster than Cinnamon by a bit and Gnome isn't very beginner
                      friendly at the moment. We where first going to use XFCE but they are
                      no where near being Compatible with Wayland. I hope I answered your
                      question and if you have any further ones I'll be glad to answer.

                      Kind Regards,
                      Andrew Bernstein

                      On Sat, Jul 5, 2014 at 6:24 AM, <no-reply@parastorage.com> wrote:
                      > You have a new message:
                      > Via: http://www.operatingsystemu.com/
                      > Message Details:
                      >
                      > Name :
                      > Email :
                      > Subject : Mate?
                      > Message : >mate Really? It doesn't even have Wayland support. Maybe it would
                      > be better if you would use Gnome or Cinnamon since they have some sort of
                      > Wayland support working.
                      >
                      > Sent on: 5 July, 2014
                      > Thank you!

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by teeedubb View Post
                        LOL... A OS for the masses based on Arch... I want some of what the people who dreamed up this are smoking. Maybe it could work if the world was full of Linux tech gurus, but we all know that's far from reality.
                        My tech illiterate Mom has been on Manjaro for over a year now. Yea, in practice it was not the best move, but Apper just auto updates her stuff and it has never broke. I also just keep her on her current working kernel, though I should probably up that to 3.14.

                        It is not like Arch does not have testing repositories to sort this stuff out.

                        My only issues with it are the lack of AUR updates through a GUI (ie, wrapper yaourt -Syua instead of pacman -Syu) and the lack of MAC options besides grsec, which is kind of overkill for a consumer machine.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Del_ View Post
                          Yes. Do you remember what the proprietary video driver support was like?
                          Yes, it was kind of the same as it is now. There were many issues, but there were also people successfully using Nvidia and AMD drivers on Linux. Phoronix was even benchmarking - NVIDIA Linux Display Driver Performance Analyzed, ATI v8.19.10 Linux Performance - running Unreal Tournament 2003, Doom 3, Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory, Quake 4, and synthetic benchmarks. Were there bugs? Sure. But Nouveau didn't even exist back then, and AMD didn't have any developers working on open source drivers, so using open source drivers that did not yet exist was not an option.

                          Given the choice of "you can't run Linux on your laptop, stick with Windows" versus "you can run Linux with a proprietary video driver", the latter is preferable.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by scottishduck View Post
                            dream on
                            Suggesting that consumers think the Apple brand is worthless and Apple hardware design is unappealing. You can't have it both ways. You can't insist that Apple has a strong brand and aesthetically pleasing hardware design, but then also claim that nobody would want exactly the same brand and hardware if it ran the most widely used desktop OS. If consumers were not interested in Windows on Macbook was then https://www.google.com/search?q="windows on macbook" wouldn't return 109,000 results.

                            Comment


                            • #44

                              Quote Originally Posted by Del_ View Post
                              Yes. Do you remember what the proprietary video driver support was like?


                              Originally posted by chrisb View Post
                              Yes, it was kind of the same as it is now. There were many issues, but there were also people successfully using Nvidia and AMD drivers on Linux. Phoronix was even benchmarking - NVIDIA Linux Display Driver Performance Analyzed, ATI v8.19.10 Linux Performance - running Unreal Tournament 2003, Doom 3, Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory, Quake 4, and synthetic benchmarks. Were there bugs? Sure. But Nouveau didn't even exist back then, and AMD didn't have any developers working on open source drivers, so using open source drivers that did not yet exist was not an option.

                              Given the choice of "you can't run Linux on your laptop, stick with Windows" versus "you can run Linux with a proprietary video driver", the latter is preferable.
                              I remember. There were some Matrox G400 or something with free driver said to give excellent 2D quality and some 3D. I myself had some SiS integrated graphics chip with free drivers - maybe SiS 900 or if not, then that was my NIC chip - it worked both 2D and 3D. There were Intel integrated graphics chips too with free drivers. There were options for graphics with free drivers but the problem was 3D performance.

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                              • #45
                                Image and attitude problems with the project

                                Just a few random thoughts:

                                I have no problem with the age or title of the CEO. Good on him for caring such much about Linux. Stranger things have happened.

                                The whole project is facing a huge uphill battle, with trying to enter Ubuntu marketing space being only one obstacle. Having a relatively small development group and very limited financial backing at this point are other hurdles.

                                I agree with the comments about being part of the community and contributing.

                                Just because it is Arch, it does not mean it would be a scary jump for new users. I think Manjaro has already proven that. Which brings me to the point that if these guys insist on Arch, then they are going up against a highly polished Manjaro.

                                “Tired of Major and Unneccessary Changes To Your Operating System?”

                                They seriously could not spell-check their own public web site? And what is up with the tacky stock photo thumbnails? How about some more business-like team member photos?

                                Credit given where credit is due: good looking logo. They should overhaul their project, demeanor, philosophy, marketing, branding and image to match the logo, though. It is hard to convince the business world that you are serious when you do your master plan to take over the universe on a collaborative Google spreadsheet.

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