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A Number Of Fedora 21 Features Were Just Approved

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  • A Number Of Fedora 21 Features Were Just Approved

    Phoronix: A Number Of Fedora 21 Features Were Just Approved

    The Fedora Engineering and Steering Committee has approved a batch of new features for Fedora 21 with its much anticipated debut in Q4'2014...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTYyODQ

  • #2
    Fedora is a great distro and is getting better. I am surprised it's not as popular as Ubuntu.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by sarmad View Post
      Fedora is a great distro and is getting better. I am surprised it's not as popular as Ubuntu.
      Indeed. With a leading development community and great stability, Fedora is a great distro. I install it in all my secondary Linux systems (VMs, stable workstations, etc). My main system is currently Arch, as I like to stay reasonably close to the latest releases of everything without compromising stability too much. For stabler endeavors, Fedora is my distro of choice

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Pseus View Post
        Indeed. With a leading development community and great stability, Fedora is a great distro. I install it in all my secondary Linux systems (VMs, stable workstations, etc). My main system is currently Arch, as I like to stay reasonably close to the latest releases of everything without compromising stability too much. For stabler endeavors, Fedora is my distro of choice
        Seconded, on all counts.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by sarmad View Post
          Fedora is a great distro and is getting better. I am surprised it's not as popular as Ubuntu.
          There are few issues, I've encountered as a fedora user:

          1. Terrible Multimedia support from fedora: mp3, dvd, mkv playback is a big trouble; users have to struggle to install flash plugin; rpmfusion, adobe flash, etc.

          Whereas an Ubuntu user can simply [ ] enable restricted-extras in their software, and have fun. Fedora users they have to google, and manually run so many things.

          2. No official forums

          3. copr is only for free software devlopers and FAS account holders, you can't build anything multimedia related there,or any emulator or something which users would like like simplescreenrecord (ffmpeg dependency);

          Ubuntu's Launchpad and ppa system is just great for users and developers, you and I can build and publish free and non-free software for ubuntu.

          Good luck trying to publish a non-free software at rpmfusion or copr.

          4. No updates for some softwares like wxGTK (stuck at 2.8) rest of the world is using 2.9 (e.g., aegisub, dolphin-emu); so some software can't be updated.

          Fedora says that it is illegal to use patented software in USA; hence can't host or build them at USA. But Ubuntu build and distributes all non-free and patented software, is Ubuntu not is USA or they have some magic formula which Redhat don't know of?

          Can anybody please enlighten me, why ubuntu can allow restricted-extras and non-free software in their servers and ppa but fedora/redhat can't? Are rules different for Redhat and Ubuntu in USA?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by sarmad View Post
            Fedora is a great distro and is getting better. I am surprised it's not as popular as Ubuntu.
            I think, following f.N, you'll see more people moving to fedora.
            I'm especially looking forward to some of the long term desktop usability issues being fixed, but, of more importance is that I think this will result in a much more flexible, and stable, product.
            Some of the initiatives that have been proposed just make so much sense.

            Comment


            • #7
              "but we will see if that improves with the latest Fedora restructuring that's been ongoing for this Red Hat sponsored distribution."

              I wouldn't hope for too much for f21. Maybe in the *long* term, but in the *short* term - at least for the first release under the new system - what it means is we have a lot more work to do.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by fastrizwaan View Post
                There are few issues, I've encountered as a fedora user:

                1. Terrible Multimedia support from fedora: mp3, dvd, mkv playback is a big trouble; users have to struggle to install flash plugin; rpmfusion, adobe flash, etc.

                Whereas an Ubuntu user can simply [ ] enable restricted-extras in their software, and have fun. Fedora users they have to google, and manually run so many things.
                Um. Where 'so many things' is 'click two links that enable the Fusion repositories' (assuming, of course, it's legal for you to do so)? I'm really not seeing the difficulty.

                Originally posted by fastrizwaan View Post
                2. No official forums
                http://fedoraforum.org

                they're not officially part of the Fedora project, but it's not like there's some kind of Forum War. There is one set of fedora forums where everyone who wants to post to a fedora forum posts. So...what's the problem?

                Originally posted by fastrizwaan View Post
                Fedora says that it is illegal to use patented software in USA; hence can't host or build them at USA. But Ubuntu build and distributes all non-free and patented software, is Ubuntu not is USA
                Canonical is legally based on the Isle of Man (and practically based in London). I don't know the details of their resources, but it's certainly reasonable to infer that no significant Ubuntu development/engineering/whatever happens in the US.

                Originally posted by fastrizwaan View Post
                Can anybody please enlighten me, why ubuntu can allow restricted-extras and non-free software in their servers and ppa but fedora/redhat can't? Are rules different for Redhat and Ubuntu in USA?
                For a start, I really, really, REALLY wish people would just for the love of Pete read and understand the difference between patented and non-free before posting. Fedora *cannot* include patented software. Fedora *chooses not* to include non-free software. These are different questions.

                So far as patented software goes, there are various factors involved, but the bulk of the difference in policy (such as it is) is down to Canonical not being based in the US, having a legal team willing to sail rather closer to the wind than Red Hat's, and just not being as attractive a target for patent lawsuits. Remember, patent law is a *practical* matter. There are no Patent Police who go around on the hunt for ne'er-do-well patent violators. Patent law is civil law, and it's 'policed' by the patent holders. Patent law also does not have a 'duty to enforce' like trademark law (sort of) does: the patent holder is mostly free to choose who they sue, and who they don't. If you hold a patent and you think someone's violating it, you do a cost/benefit calculation to decide what you should do: send them a threatening letter, sue them, or just ignore it. It's only worth suing them if you think you're likely to *actually receive* more money than it costs you to sue them (plus more money to compensate for any PR damage you suffer as a result of the move). It's no good suing someone and being awarded TEN BEEELLION DOLLARS if the person you sued can't pay up; you're not going to get your TEN BEEEELLION DOLLARS from anyone else. So distros like Mint more or less ship whatever they like, because everyone knows they have no money, so what's the point of suing them?

                Canonical has a bit more money than Mint or Debian or something, but nowhere near as much as Red Hat has. It's consequently a much less attractive target. RH gets sued for violating patents. All the time. It's not some kind of theoretical threat. Just Google "red hat patent lawsuit" if you want to see what I mean. We get sued all the time because we have lots of money. It's not rocket science.

                (note: I am not a lawyer and none of the above is legal advice, Red Hat policy, or a statement on Red Hat's behalf. it is entirely unauthorized and unofficial, I speak for myself.)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks Adam!

                  Originally posted by AdamW View Post
                  Um. Where 'so many things' is 'click two links that enable the Fusion repositories' (assuming, of course, it's legal for you to do so)? I'm really not seeing the difficulty.
                  Adding rpmfusion repo is just the start of the ordeal; flash plugin needs adobe repo; chorme needs different repo; virtual box needs one more; this http://www.if-not-true-then-false.com/ helped me a lot, without such websites, it's not possible for a regular user to have good multimedia experience with fedora. But with Ubuntu and OpenSuSE it is easy with 1click installers; http://software.opensuse.org/package/flash-player. I hope Fedora Workstation will be exceptionally good.

                  1 click installs are easy to implement; already gnome-software does that (in gnome-shell); only a meta file with "repo and packages to install" can do the trick with web-browsers as well for fedora workstation.

                  Canonical is legally based on the Isle of Man (and practically based in London). I don't know the details of their resources, but it's certainly reasonable to infer that no significant Ubuntu development/engineering/whatever happens in the US.
                  Canonical being in the UK, not a super rich corporation and allowing patented and non-free software be hosted and developed on their servers (launchpad.net), seems to be the reason for UBUNTU's popularity on the desktop.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by fastrizwaan View Post
                    There are few issues, I've encountered as a fedora user:

                    1. Terrible Multimedia support from fedora: mp3, dvd, mkv playback is a big trouble; users have to struggle to install flash plugin; rpmfusion, adobe flash, etc.

                    Whereas an Ubuntu user can simply [ ] enable restricted-extras in their software, and have fun.
                    Fedora is about free software, unlike Ubuntu which usually doesn't care. You get what you want.

                    Originally posted by fastrizwaan View Post
                    Fedora users they have to google, and manually run so many things.
                    Better not Google.

                    Originally posted by fastrizwaan View Post
                    2. No official forums
                    There is Fedora Solved and IRC. There are actually many community resources to help you.

                    Originally posted by fastrizwaan View Post
                    3. copr is only for free software devlopers and FAS account holders, you can't build anything multimedia related there,or any emulator or something which users would like like simplescreenrecord (ffmpeg dependency);
                    It's a good thing. I presume it can be multimedia-related if it doesn't use patent-encumbered formats.

                    Originally posted by fastrizwaan View Post
                    Ubuntu's Launchpad and ppa system is just great for users and developers, you and I can build and publish free and non-free software for ubuntu.
                    It also encourages people to break their systems...

                    Originally posted by fastrizwaan View Post
                    Good luck trying to publish a non-free software at rpmfusion or copr.
                    Yeah, indeed, we won't miss it though.

                    Originally posted by fastrizwaan View Post
                    4. No updates for some softwares like wxGTK (stuck at 2.8) rest of the world is using 2.9 (e.g., aegisub, dolphin-emu); so some software can't be updated.
                    Generally Fedora is just as up-to-date as Ubuntu non-LTS, if not more (Linux kernel and LibreOffice are more recent currently).

                    Originally posted by fastrizwaan View Post
                    Fedora says that it is illegal to use patented software in USA; hence can't host or build them at USA. But Ubuntu build and distributes all non-free and patented software, is Ubuntu not is USA or they have some magic formula which Redhat don't know of?
                    Ubuntu usually doesn't care about laws and is UK-based (if not Isle of Man... you know why).

                    Originally posted by fastrizwaan View Post
                    Can anybody please enlighten me, why ubuntu can allow restricted-extras and non-free software in their servers and ppa but fedora/redhat can't? Are rules different for Redhat and Ubuntu in USA?
                    Yes they are, Fedora does not distribute or promote non-free software, except binary firmware.


                    Note that I don't use Fedora, I only did in a virtual machine.
                    Last edited by Calinou; 03-13-2014, 05:21 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by fastrizwaan View Post
                      Adding rpmfusion repo is just the start of the ordeal; flash plugin needs adobe repo;
                      That is assuming that you want to use the official unsupported/discontinued and somewhat blacklisted flash plugin....
                      Alternatively, I think that firefox is handling some flash junk all by itself now....
                      And there is also gnash-plugin, an open source flash implementation, part of Fedora.
                      Or you can just ditch flash altogether, its kind of pointless these days.

                      chorme needs different repo;
                      Fedora ships with Firefox, so it isn't like you're without a browser. If you happen to like something specific that is different than the distro includes, you will always be faced with installing it yourself. Take wondoze for example... if you want Firefox or Chrome, you have to go and download it. Fact of life, you will NEVER get an OS distribution to include *everything in the world*.

                      virtual box needs one more;
                      Virtualbox is in rpmfusion.
                      But it is also a similar situation as the browser. Fedora includes its own virtualization platform, ready for you to use in the official repositories.

                      As far as other/generic multimedia goes... Fedora actually handles a lot of cool stuff right out of the box. AMD/Intel/CrystalHD H264 decoding hardware included. It does kind of suck about the whole mp3 situation, I agree. Its not even a particularly wonderful compression technique, and it is sad that so many people still use it instead of things like vorbis.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I really hate crap like this when I see it published.

                        You would think that people conversant with Linux distros would be better able to grasp the concepts here.

                        Originally posted by fastrizwaan View Post
                        There are few issues, I've encountered as a fedora user:

                        1. Terrible Multimedia support from fedora: mp3, dvd, mkv playback is a big trouble; users have to struggle to install flash plugin; rpmfusion, adobe flash, etc.
                        For one it isn't a struggle, to make it out to be one paints you as someone not capable of managing simple system needs.

                        Second Fedora doesn't publish patent encumbered software.

                        Third if you want Adobe flash support why wouldn't you go to Adobe? The bigger question is why would you want Flash support knowing all of the security risks associated with it.
                        Whereas an Ubuntu user can simply [ ] enable restricted-extras in their software, and have fun. Fedora users they have to google, and manually run so many things.
                        Funny I have had to do little installation outside the repositories. Most of those installations are probably code you wouldn't understand so I doubt a discussion can happen here. However the reality is that any non trivial use of a Linux distro will end up with software installed that doesn't come from the distro repository.
                        2. No official forums
                        Forums aplenty if you look.
                        3. copr is only for free software devlopers and FAS account holders, you can't build anything multimedia related there,or any emulator or something which users would like like simplescreenrecord (ffmpeg dependency);
                        Why would you want simplescreenrecord? Hopefully not to pirate movies. In any event you can get it to work if you want.
                        Ubuntu's Launchpad and ppa system is just great for users and developers, you and I can build and publish free and non-free software for ubuntu.
                        So?
                        Good luck trying to publish a non-free software at rpmfusion or copr.
                        Do you even grasp why this is a problem, that is publishing patent encumbered software there or even software with a restricted copyright! Fedora keeps its repositories as clean as possible, that is not a bad thing at all.
                        4. No updates for some softwares like wxGTK (stuck at 2.8) rest of the world is using 2.9 (e.g., aegisub, dolphin-emu); so some software can't be updated.
                        Not every package remains viable over the long term. Further sometimes even Fedora prefers to stay with more stable solutions. If this is a problem you can upgrade yourself. However it might be advisable to check first to see why a certain package lags in the repository, there might be a good reason. It could also mean that nobody gives a damn about the package anymore.

                        In the end whining about why one package is a point release behind on a distro is non sense. Look hard enough and you can find old versions of software shipping on every distro.
                        Fedora says that it is illegal to use patented software in USA; hence can't host or build them at USA. But Ubuntu build and distributes all non-free and patented software, is Ubuntu not is USA or they have some magic formula which Redhat don't know of?
                        Fedora takes the moral high ground when it can. I'd much rather work with a company that is ethical instead of one that isn't. Using Ubuntu is in effect supporting a company with poor ethics when it comes to patents.

                        As to where Ubuntu is located, give me a break. If you are so uninformed about this you had no business posting this comment at all.

                        Beyond that do you even realize the difference between non-free and patented software?
                        Can anybody please enlighten me, why ubuntu can allow restricted-extras and non-free software in their servers and ppa but fedora/redhat can't? Are rules different for Redhat and Ubuntu in USA?
                        It is pretty simple, one distro is headed by an ethical company and the other isn't. That encapsulates the whole issue really. It goes beyond that as RedHat has policies that are probably stricter than absolutely needed but those policies assure users that they are getting a clean distro.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by fastrizwaan View Post
                          Thanks Adam!

                          Adding rpmfusion repo is just the start of the ordeal; flash plugin needs adobe repo;
                          Flash's license doesn't actually allow others to redistribute it. That's why it's not in RPM Fusion. Mandriva used to use a wrapper package to get around that, but it's kind of clunky. I don't know the details of Ubuntu's distribution, but if someone is packaging Flash itself without permission from Adobe, they're breaking the license.

                          Originally posted by fastrizwaan View Post
                          chorme needs different repo;
                          Eh, Chrome. I don't know why the hell anyone uses that thing. But note that it includes its own Flash player (Google has an arrangement with Adobe), so if you're using Chrome as your browser, you don't need the separate Flash plugin. Chrome is kind of a special case: Chromium is not in Fedora, not because of licensing *or* patent issues, but just because it doesn't meet Fedora's packaging standards (it bundles a whole ton of libraries in a way which makes it just about impossible to unpick them).

                          Originally posted by fastrizwaan View Post
                          virtual box needs one more;
                          I don't run it, but last I checked, it was in RPM Fusion.

                          Originally posted by fastrizwaan View Post
                          this http://www.if-not-true-then-false.com/ helped me a lot, without such websites, it's not possible for a regular user to have good multimedia experience with fedora.
                          You keep saying 'multimedia', but I don't see what a browser plugin, web browser, and virtualization app have to do with multimedia.

                          Originally posted by fastrizwaan View Post
                          But with Ubuntu and OpenSuSE it is easy with 1click installers; http://software.opensuse.org/package/flash-player. I hope Fedora Workstation will be exceptionally good.
                          From the Adobe license (http://wwwimages.adobe.com/www.adobe...layer_12.0.pdf , search for "notwithstanding" to find the English part...that made my morning): "3.3 Distribution. This license does not grant you the right to sublicense or distribute the Software. For information about obtaining the right to distribute the Software on tangible media or through an internal network or with your product or service please refer to http://www.adobe.com/go/acrobat_distribute for information about Adobe Reader; or http://www.adobe.com/go/licensing for information about the Adobe Runtimes." (which is followed by a bunch of stuff about how the h264 decoding is licensed only for personal non-commercial use, cannot be installed on servers, blah blah blah, all of which is also clearly incompatible with redistribution).

                          I don't know about SUSE's position, but AFAIK Adobe hasn't given RPM Fusion any permission to redistribute Flash. So, in accordance with its license, they don't.

                          Originally posted by fastrizwaan View Post
                          1 click installs are easy to implement; already gnome-software does that (in gnome-shell); only a meta file with "repo and packages to install" can do the trick with web-browsers as well for fedora workstation.
                          Yes. The issues with redistribution are rarely technical ones.

                          Originally posted by fastrizwaan View Post
                          Canonical being in the UK, not a super rich corporation and allowing patented and non-free software be hosted and developed on their servers (launchpad.net), seems to be the reason for UBUNTU's popularity on the desktop.
                          I wouldn't say you've demonstrated that...
                          Last edited by AdamW; 03-13-2014, 12:42 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by wizard69 View Post
                            Why would you want simplescreenrecord? Hopefully not to pirate movies. In any event you can get it to work if you want.
                            While I generally agreed with your sentiment, this line is pure troll. There are plenty of reasons why someone would want to either record their desktop or their games other than "to pirate movies". In fact, why would you even use something like this to pirate them?

                            As to getting it working:
                            http://fedora-apps.blogspot.ca/2013/...st-screen.html

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Calinou, my reply was about why ubuntu is popular than fedora; and this is these were the reasons ubuntu works well for most of the Desktop users; hence Ubuntu is popular; fedora is not!

                              Originally posted by Calinou View Post
                              Fedora is about free software, unlike Ubuntu which usually doesn't care. You get what you want.
                              Just like Ubuntu, most desktop users don't care.

                              Better not Google.
                              LOL...

                              There is Fedora Solved and IRC. There are actually many community resources to help you.
                              OK.

                              It's a good thing. I presume it can be multimedia-related if it doesn't use patent-encumbered formats.
                              But that's a bad thing for desktop users.

                              It also encourages people to break their systems...
                              Using fedora updates also break the system; now I'm using selinux=0 in grub, else fedora 20 or rawhide won't boot.

                              Yeah, indeed, we won't miss it though.
                              Ya but desktop users want software which work for them like skype, chrome, emulators, etc.!

                              Generally Fedora is just as up-to-date as Ubuntu non-LTS, if not more (Linux kernel and LibreOffice are more recent currently).
                              Yes, but some libraries like wxgtk has not been updated for at least last 2 releases. can't build aegisub subtitle editor on fedora.

                              Ubuntu usually doesn't care about laws and is UK-based (if not Isle of Man... you know why).
                              That's an arrogant statement; UK and rest of the free world are not insane about software patents.

                              Yes they are, Fedora does not distribute or promote non-free software, except binary firmware.
                              except binary firmware? so fedora does distribute non-free software!

                              Note that I don't use Fedora, I only did in a virtual machine.
                              That's beside the point; Fedora is not for general computer user; Ubuntu is. Because Ubuntu gives what user wants and needs unlike fedora. And I use Fedora.
                              Last edited by fastrizwaan; 03-13-2014, 02:28 PM. Reason: fix quote tag

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