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Voting Proposed For Debian Jessie's Init System

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  • #81
    Originally posted by valeriodean View Post
    They (systemd's devs) cannot make systemd a dependecy for everything
    Fortunately, that's true. But what part of "trying to" you don't understand?

    Originally posted by valeriodean View Post
    What they can certainly do is to provide a continuos flow of new, elegant, robust features.
    Wow, just wow. You're from Red Hat PR department, aren't you?

    Originally posted by TAXI View Post
    b) systemd is modular.
    Yeah. A manually-patch-and-recompile-everything-to-make-it-modular kind of modular.

    /facepalm

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    • #82
      Originally posted by gens View Post
      bouth Lennart and Kay are huge proponents and contributors of GnomeOS
      if i were to be cynical id say it was their goal with systemd all along
      And the KDE community?

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      • #83
        Originally posted by prodigy_ View Post
        But what part of "trying to" you don't understand?
        The mind-reading, I would think.

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        • #84
          Originally posted by gens View Post
          so if systemd (the kernel in userspace) was designed in the stile of the linux kernel, you could take idk logind and use it without systemd (only thing userspace is really dependant on is the kernel)
          but you can't
          Huh?
          http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...tem&px=MTMyMDE
          https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/+archive/logind
          http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/...-logind.8.html

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          • #85
            This is unsupported and the implementation is already broken compared to newest SystemD.

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            • #86
              Originally posted by Pajn View Post
              This is unsupported and the implementation is already broken compared to newest SystemD.
              What do you mean for "unsupported"?
              Here it's marked as "Completed on 2013-05-29":
              https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubu...gind-migration

              And how is it broken? Any specific bug report?

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              • #87
                Originally posted by panda84 View Post
                What do you mean for "unsupported"?
                Here it's marked as "Completed on 2013-05-29":
                https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubu...gind-migration

                And how is it broken? Any specific bug report?
                Lennart Poettering made a post on G+ bragging that its broken.
                https://plus.google.com/+LennartPoet...ts/8RmiAQsW9qf
                The last time they tried that they took logind out of the systemd tree and ported it to Upstart. logind of course is one of the components of systemd where we explicitly documented that it is not a component you can rip out of systemd. And of course, just a few months after Canonical did this, things are broken again, and this was to be expected: logind now uses the new cgroups userspace APIs (as mentioned above), and hence it will not run without systemd around. So Ubuntu is stuck with an old and unsupported version of logind. If they advocate this as a solution, then they are in ignorance onthat what they have is already out-of-date. (And yeah, this matters, for example all the nifty stuff that allows Wayland to run nicely without privs is implemented in the newer logind versions, and not in Canonical's forked version).

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                • #88
                  Originally posted by Pajn View Post
                  Lennart Poettering made a post on G+ bragging that its broken.
                  https://plus.google.com/+LennartPoet...ts/8RmiAQsW9qf
                  Thanks for the pointer. So logind is meant to be part of systemd only.

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                  • #89
                    Originally posted by Pajn View Post
                    This is unsupported and the implementation is already broken compared to newest SystemD.
                    You can't expect systemd maintainers to support alternatives to their software.

                    Here is a hint: they work on Systemd because they consider it the superior way. It is the job of those who disagree with that to provide support and maintain the alternative.

                    An alternative even exists: consolekit. But all you see is the nonsystemd crown bitching about systemd instead of maintaining this alternative (let alone adding logind-compatible interfaces)

                    The choices are that either Debian Jessie goes with Systemd or it will have subpar or aging Gnome AND KDE as both will be utilising systemd features.

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                    • #90
                      Originally posted by prodigy_ View Post
                      Fortunately, that's true. But what part of "trying to" you don't understand?
                      And what part of "nobody forced other project to use any part of systemd (as per logind)" you don't understand?

                      You are free to use their software as well as they are free to develop it following the direction they have in mind.
                      You don't like the direction? Good, then you can:
                      - fork it
                      - adopt a different project
                      - maintain the old project
                      - start a new one

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